Woody knows football?

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by IIMeanDeanII, Nov 20, 2024.

  1. IIMeanDeanII

    IIMeanDeanII Well-Known Member

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    https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5933929/2024/11/19/joe-douglas-new-york-jets-gm-fired/

    Joe Douglas sat alone in the press box, staring blankly at the field in front of him. Reporters and Jets staffers walked by and he barely spoke. When that Sunday night game in Pittsburgh ended, the Jets’ 15-6 lead evaporating in a 37-15 loss at Acrisure Stadium, Douglas was already gone.

    During the fourth quarter, Douglas took the elevator down to the lower level, went to the visitor’s locker room, grabbed his bag and retreated to the team bus where he sat, alone, during the game’s final moments. It was a fitting image: A general manager, worn down not only by the losses, but by the pressure of an owner with an increasingly heavy hand.

    On Tuesday, one month later, the Jets held a walkthrough at the team facility. Some staffers were surprised to see owner Woody Johnson on the last day before the team broke for their bye week — even at a practice mandated by Johnson himself. Some suspected something was about to happen. They were right.

    Douglas was fired as general manager during his sixth season on the job. Senior personnel consultant Phil Savage will take over in the interim. The Jets have already started their search for a new general manager.
     
  2. IIMeanDeanII

    IIMeanDeanII Well-Known Member

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    When he spoke to the media (for the last time as Jets GM) on Nov. 6, Douglas looked defeated. He was never much of a talker, but his answers were brief even for him, and devoid of emotion. Perhaps what multiple team sources, granted anonymity to discuss the inner workings of the Jets’ front office, said transpired over the last few months was weighing on him.

    According to those sources, the day after the Jets’ loss to the Denver Broncos on Sept. 29, there was a contentious meeting at the team facility. It included Johnson, Douglas, vice chairman Christopher Johnson, team president Hymie Elhai, and Ira Akselrad, an adviser to Johnson. It also included a group of coaches: then-head coach Robert Saleh, offensive coordinator Nathaniel Hackett, then-defensive coordinator Jeff Ulbrich and special teams coordinator Brant Boyer among them.

    The coaches had been called in to explain what happened with their units during the 10-9 home loss to the Broncos. During the meeting, Johnson suggested to the coaches that they bench Aaron Rodgers in favor of Tyrod Taylor because he felt Rodgers’ performance was holding the team back. The coaches and Douglas, stunned at the suggestion, talked him out of it and convinced Johnson to stay the course and that benching Rodgers, with his pedigree, four games into the season would not sit well with the locker room. The coaches also felt it would embarrass Rodgers. The idea of benching the future Hall of Famer sounded so absurd that one coach asked whether the owner was serious — multiple sources from that meeting believed he was.

    Johnson was calmed that day, but the meeting set the tone for what happened a week later. On Oct. 8, Johnson made a unilateral decision to fire Saleh without consulting his general manager (or anyone else in the organization, for that matter). But really, Douglas’ free will as the GM was stripped away long before that. (Douglas did not respond to a request for comment.)

    Douglas had already lost some power midway through last season when Johnson took a more active role. Example: Douglas had a contract extension offer he was getting ready to propose to defensive end Bryce Huff’s agent, but Johnson vetoed that — and any other moves involving paying new money to players on the roster. By January, Douglas seemed to have even less control. That’s when he fired assistant general manager Rex Hogan, a move that shocked many in the organization because of how close Douglas and Hogan — and their families — were. Multiple team sources theorized that Johnson forced Douglas’s hand; in the aftermath, Douglas told Jets staffers that “Woody should just fire me now.” In February, director of player personnel Chad Alexander left for an assistant GM job with the Los Angeles Chargers; Johnson didn’t allow Douglas to replace either of them. From then on, many in the Jets organization described Douglas as a shell of himself.

    “They’re holding him hostage,” a team source told The Athletic.

    “Joe was checked out,” said another former Jets front office member.

    Last offseason, both Saleh and Douglas agreed they needed to focus on rectifying some past mistakes they had made in free agency — specifically, they wanted to avoid aging players or ones with injury concerns. Douglas pursued a trade with the Denver Broncos for wide receiver Jerry Jeudy, offering Allen Lazard and a Day 2 draft pick, according to a league source, but Johnson nixed it. Jeudy was instead traded to the Cleveland Browns.

    When offensive tackle Tyron Smith and wide receiver Mike Williams lingered after the initial wave of free-agent signings, the Jets pursued both. Multiple team sources believe this was a matter of Johnson’s preoccupation with social media factoring into the Jets’ decision-making. Douglas went along. He offered an incentive-laden one-year, $6.5 million deal worth up to $20 million with various playing-time incentives. What Douglas didn’t expect: No other teams (including the Dallas Cowboys, where Smith had spent his whole career) had expressed interest in signing Smith — so the former All-Pro accepted the Jets’ offer. The 33-year-old has allowed the most sacks of Jets offensive linemen and is currently out with a neck injury. Williams, coming off a torn ACL, also signed for a one-year, incentive-laden deal that didn’t work out. He was traded to the Pittsburgh Steelers for a fifth-round pick after nine unproductive games in the Jets offense.

    Around the time Smith and Williams joined the roster, the Jets began talks to acquire Pro Bowl defensive end Haason Reddick, granted permission to seek a trade by the Eagles. Reddick, who turned 30 in September, was in the last year of his contract and wanted a new deal, which Philadelphia wasn’t going to give him. His asking price (believed to be around $25 million per season) was so high that there was little interest from other teams.

    According to a league source, Douglas was warned by Reddick’s representation that if the Jets didn’t plan on awarding Reddick a new contract, they should hold off on a trade. But when Douglas found out it would only cost him a 2026 third-round pick for a player of Reddick’s caliber he did it anyway, believing that Reddick would report and the team could figure out the contract later. However, per team sources, Johnson wasn’t willing to give Reddick a new contract. And so Reddick skipped OTAs, minicamp, training camp and the first seven weeks of the regular season before finally reporting to a then-2-5 Jets team.
     
  3. IIMeanDeanII

    IIMeanDeanII Well-Known Member

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    If it wasn’t obvious how involved Johnson was in the operation before this season started, it became clearer in October, when Saleh was fired. Johnson explained that he felt the Jets had the most talented roster the franchise had assembled in his 25 years as owner and he wanted to find a spark before it was too late, promoting Ulbrich to interim head coach. The line about the roster talent was presumably an endorsement of the work Douglas had done over the past few years, but multiple sources within the organization viewed it as more of an endorsement of the roster that Johnson felt that he had built.

    On Oct. 15, Johnson pushed Douglas to trade for star Raiders wide receiver Davante Adams, giving up a conditional third-round pick — far more than other teams traded for top wide receivers at the deadline. The next day, Johnson told reporters at the owners meetings in Atlanta that “you know, thinking is overrated. You have to look forward. We have to look forward to the games we’re going to play each and every week and try to win all of them … you just have to go with your instinct and what’s the best thing to build a team.”

    When he was asked if the Jets season was “salvageable” he responded: “We’re gonna kick … you can add the words after that. We’re going to do really well.”

    On Sunday, the Jets benched starting safety Tony Adams at the behest of Johnson, according to a team source. Johnson also wanted the Jets to practice during their bye week, which didn’t go over well with some of the locker room’s leaders.

    The Jets are 1-4 since the Adams trade, 3-8 for the season and are headed into an offseason in which they will be undertaking a full organizational reset: general manager, head coach and, probably, quarterback. Rodgers is fond of both Douglas and Ulbrich and had been hoping for some continuity in 2025. As such, it’s increasingly unlikely the quarterback returns next season, and it’s believed that Johnson won’t want him back anyway.

    As for Douglas, he had his struggles as general manager. His biggest mistakes came in the failure to construct a competent offensive line until this year, as well as drafting Zach Wilson second overall in 2021, poor draft classes in ’20 and ’21 and other misses in free agency. But those mistakes were balanced out by some shrewd moves, like the impressive ’22 draft class (Sauce Gardner, Garrett Wilson, Jermaine Johnson, Breece Hall) and some successful free-agent signings and waiver claims that worked out, like D.J. Reed, Quincy Williams, John Franklin-Myers and John Simpson. Ultimately, it’s difficult for any general manager to survive six years without sniffing the postseason.

    Douglas wasn’t technically hired by Woody Johnson, but rather his brother Christopher Johnson, the team’s vice chairman who ran the organization for three-and-a-half years while Johnson was working in the Trump administration as the ambassador to the United Kingdom. Many in the organization were under the impression that, when Johnson returned in 2021, he wouldn’t be involved as much day-to-day.

    Fast-forward to Douglas’ last news conference. He was asked about being kept out of the decision to fire Saleh.

    His response: “I serve at the pleasure of the owner.”
     
  4. IIMeanDeanII

    IIMeanDeanII Well-Known Member

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    This article Is very critical of the behind the scenes of Woody and his meddling BS. Joe D and Robert Saleh were not the problem. They are not the problem. The cancer still resides In that building and we are 100% fucked as NYJ fans until this self-proclaimed football savant finally sells this team.

    If you notice.. Woody actually thinks he Is the reason behind this roster and the talent that Is on It. He also is pointing the finger at everyone but himself... Yet, if it wasn't for him, we'd be in a far better situation right now.

    Sorry If this has been posted elsewhere but I thought this was worth sharing on it's own. I just can't believe this Is reality.
     
  5. STARoSCREAM

    STARoSCREAM Well-Known Member

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    2 things can be true

    Woody sucks and JD sucks

    (BONUS SUCK: Saleh sucked too, Keith Carter sucks, Reddick Sucks, Smith sucks, Rodgers Sucks)

    [​IMG]
     
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  6. NY Jets68

    NY Jets68 Well-Known Member

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    Excuse my language, but Woody is a fucktard.
    Woody is the very definition of the word.
     
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  7. Since1969

    Since1969 Well-Known Member

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    What jumps out at me from that article is the people Woody brought to the meeting after the loss to Denver: vice chairman Christopher Johnson, team president Hymie Elhai, and Ira Akselrad, an adviser to Johnson.

    This was a meeting about football. What are Elhai and Akselrad doing there?

    Are these Woody's enablers? Are these the guys that tell Woody that every thought that pops into his mind is sheer genius and that he knows more about football than the NFL lifers? Are these the guys that egg him on in his stupid meddling?

    I wonder just what role guys like Elhai and Akselrad play in this organization's chronic dysfunction.
     
  8. Acad23

    Acad23 Well-Known Member

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    Seems like they're the "money guys".

    Guaranteed they know diddly about football.
     
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  9. LAJet

    LAJet Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for posting it. It validates in spades what many of us have said. The most serious problem has been and will be at the very top. Was RS the answer, most likely not. Was JD the answer, well he dug himself a whole by selecting RS and a few draft misses, but the meddling of Johnson destroyed his ability to improve. Woody’s mandate of of not negotiating with players on the team was insanely stupid. Bottom line, people are delusional if they think a No shit top of the line HC and GM would select the Jets. Their circus reputation precedes him.
     
  10. SOJAZ

    SOJAZ Well-Known Member

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    Here is my take.... Woody was hands off up until the point he lost confidence in his GM. I truly believe that Woody allowed JD to do his thing which turned out to be the wrong decision. There is probably a guy out there who can deal with Woody, but Woody would never hire that type of guy.

    Think about this....Woody let Joe and Saleh do their thing until this last offseason when he made the PO mandate. For me that was a year to late but, it is what it is.

    He listened to what they were selling him and committed the resources for 5+ years and this season, he finally snapped. The losses to DEN and MIN broke the camel’s back.

    Saleh was so clueless, so unconcerned with the owner’s discontent that he was saying stuff like “it’s early” and “this is the nothing part of football”. IMHO , JD checked out last year and his moves showed it...

    Woody maybe influenced by SM or sycophants but no one should question why a guy who spend humdreds of millions of dollars at the behest of his GM and HC decides to cut jis losses. Come on guys losing record speaks for its self...

    All you who want a hands off owner just remember Leon Hess, he was a worse joke then Woody.
     
    #10 SOJAZ, Nov 20, 2024
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2024
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  11. SOJAZ

    SOJAZ Well-Known Member

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    I'll add this too...

    I see no report or evidence to indicate that Woody was responsible for drafting Elijah Moore, signing Kalil, letting Morgan Moses walk the first time, Drafing Zack and becton, etc etc.

    Woody clearly let Saleh and Douglas do their thing which resulted in trading Darnold and drafting Wilson. Darnold is now showing with good coaching and talent he is a good QB (not great) but we missed out on the trade down war chest….Wilson is one step from being out of the league.

    Douglas showed he couldn’t build an OL which still sucks...and didn’t hire the right coach.

    Saleh showed he is a glorified DC not HC and build a terrible staff and his record as HC proves it...in fact we are still paying the price.

    What else is there to say? He gave them their shot and they blew it. If he meddled at the end it only proves that Woody held on to them both too long, as he did with rex and Bowles. They both should have been gone after 2023 regardless of how AR8 felt.
     
  12. REVISion

    REVISion Well-Known Member

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    This stuck out to me too, and is further proof of the deep organizational rot and non-football people having way too much influence.

    It's hard to put much weight into the article overall because it's clearly a JD fluff piece intended to make him look better, but the bit about Elhai lines up perfectly with everything we know about why we've been so dysfunctional for so long.
     
  13. Since1969

    Since1969 Well-Known Member

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    But, Sojaz, your post illustrates the problem.

    When the owner loses confidence in the GM, the proper remedy is to fire the GM, even if it's during the season.

    No matter how little confidence Woody had in Douglas, it doesn't make Woody any more competent to make important football decisions. Woody is an amateur and has no business making the kind of football decisions that football pros make in well-functioning organizations.
     
  14. Jetaho

    Jetaho Well-Known Member

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    This entire organization is a dumpster fire and has been for a long time. The little twerp shows up with his bling necklace and thinks that gives him swag. GTFO. There is no accountability, no culture, and no consistency - None. That starts and stops with the owner. We are a laughing stock, just like him.
     
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  15. BleedJetsGreen1981

    BleedJetsGreen1981 Well-Known Member

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    Woody Is meddling moron but it's a two-way street. Douglas made plenty of mistakes and his reticence to fix glaring issues with the team hampered their production.

    The Jets had back-to-back AFC Championship games with that dolt Johnson at the helm. Roll the dice and hopefully we land a few Aces to shepherd this postseason starved franchise.
     
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  16. IIMeanDeanII

    IIMeanDeanII Well-Known Member

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    There Is no clear cut anything when It comes to this topic. Woody has a history of meddling In football operations, he has done It throughout his tenure as owner, on a regular basis. Who knows what all else he has had his hands over the years. Every decision he has made, has been idiotic at best. He gets no credit, he gets no pass, he Is the problem. Period. There has been plenty of coaches, GM's, etc... Only one person has stayed In place throughout all these horrible years of NYJ football.

    Nobody can convince me otherwise at this point. Fuck him.
     
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  17. IIMeanDeanII

    IIMeanDeanII Well-Known Member

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    Zack Rosenblatt and Dianna Russini tend to be pretty reliable sources. Not sure there Is a true agenda here, other than to expose Woody and his meddling ways..
     
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  18. LogeSection2RowJ

    LogeSection2RowJ Well-Known Member

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    A bit off topic, but as is the case when fans clamor for more Rex, let's not make it seem the Jets were a top-2 AFC powerhouse under him. They played three terrific playoff games that I loved and still think about. None were at home. His regular season record was nothing outstanding. Ultimately he lost both games that gives us a SB appearance. He was a great underdog playoff coach. He was a fun coach to have.
     
  19. REVISion

    REVISion Well-Known Member

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    I don't doubt that they had a legitimate "source" in the organization, I just think it's pretty clear that the source was Joe Douglas and he presented things to them in the most favorable light for himself as possible.

    There are probably elements of truth to at least some of the claims, but the degree of slant makes it tough to draw firm conclusions. Woody is a meddler, but some of these things just make absolutely no sense. It's also oddly coincidental that this story came out the exact day JD was officially let go. JD has known he was a goner for a while, there's very little doubt this story and its release date were planned for some time.
     
  20. Jets81

    Jets81 Well-Known Member

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    Yea Rex gave us some good memories but he’s not coming here and building a winner.

    They need experienced winners from the top down. The problem, as many of us have said, is that nobody like that wants to work for Woody Johnson. It’s not about being scared to fail, it’s about not wanting a terrible boss.
     
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