I hope you are right... And why is itI can’t remember any Joe D draft where trading back scored a home run ? Let me know otherwise and I’ll sober up Roster spot competition? Yes that can happen but talent is talent . So The semi blue chippers want to stay in NFL that doesn’t mean they become Sauce G or Garret W smh
Taking Bowers with intent to use him as Tyson Hill (minus Hill’s QB ability) and being content with that is absolutely mind blowingly nuts for a 10th overall pick. I like Bowers, I really do. But I’m really apprehensive about taking a guy who everyone argues won’t actually be a TE, but a gadget weapon at Slot and TE/H-Back. Can he run a full WR route tree? If not, forget slot receiver duties. Is he mentally capable of learning the duties of 3 different positions? All the hot route options from each position? All the blocking assignments at each position? I doubt it seeing his production includes 50% of his receptions behind the LOS. He’s basically been “here have the ball, go be athletic”. Thats cute, but you don’t out athlete others in the NFL. Is there any player in the history of the NFL draft that was taken top 10 but didn’t actually fit the position he’s drafted at, or doesn’t actually have an assigned position? Honestly, top 10 TE should he like “holy fuck that dude is Gronkowski’s clone”, not “well yeah he doesn’t look like a TE and doesn’t play like a TE but he’s a weaponzzzz”…. If we’re really advocating drafting Bowers it’s gotta be under the premise that we fail miserably this year. If we make the playoffs then Douglas, Saleh, and Hackett are all gonna be here long term, and no one currently in leadership for this team has a shred of offensive creativity in them.
Funny, the Kittle comparison. Not because I buy it, but because Sauce Gardner just posted about that yesterday. I don't think he's actually played against either one. Just thought it was interesting to see a player weigh in like that. LINK I think I need to clarify my support for Brock Bowers so it doesn't seem like I'm All-Bowers-Or-Bust. If Joe Alt somehow dropped to #10, I'd hate passing on Bowers, but I'd prefer Alt. What I'm not in favor of is using #10 pick value on a good-not-great OL over a talent like Brock Bowers just because OL is a position of obvious need. All based on what I've seen. Because this is the time of year when draft experts mythologize good-not-great college players, and anyone who watches a lot of college football knows it's impossible to watch ALL college football. For all I know, Taliese Fuaga is just as good or better than Joe Alt - I wouldn't know, and neither would 99% of the college football world. If you're in EST, you probably watched Oregon State 2-3 times and, even then, flipped between games. I like Brock Bowers because I've seen a ton of Brock Bowers and saw him win games against top talent. The archives of this board hold one of the all-time great Exhibit A examples of the value-over-need debate. In 2004, the Jets missed the AFC Championship when Doug Brien missed two makeable field goals. And that's all I'll say about that. Best thing that ever happened to Doug Brien, though. Dude is like a billionaire now. So, we used our first of two second round picks on Mike Nugent - a position of obvious need - because the front office and probably half of this board thought we were only a kicker away from a Superbowl run. I remember reading posts about how all the Jets would need to do is get over the 50-yard line and were guaranteed at least three points. Meanwhile, btw, Robbie Gould - a guy who played in the same friggin' conference as Nugent - went undrafted and signed as a free agent. In fairness, aside from Mike Nugent, that actually wasn't a terrible Jets draft. My point? I'll be damned if I'm going to let some "draft expert" mythologize a middle-tier OL into #10 value just because it's a position of need. I'd rather go with my own eyes. I hope that puts my manlove for Brock Bowers in better context.
what now? he's gotta know every single route, all the responsibilities of 3 positions and be a great blocker. Why does he have to be perfect and nobody else does to justify the pick. For fucks sake the Jets took a complete nobody last year at 15. A fat piece of shit at 11 during covid. A mommy's boy completely unprepared for the NFL at no.2 in 2021.... But Brock Bowers, who was the best player in the premier conference of all of college football, 2 years straight, needs to be perfect to justify the selection at no. 10 lol
Well said. Basically, this is a younger better Kinkaid with Kittle upside. Teens - sure. Top 10 - a reach. At least for me. Alt is too easy. What about Nabers, Odunze, Latham, Olu? These guys are not Nugent. They are legitimate top 10 prospects at premium positions.
I'm not trying to say that, but it's not an unfair characterization. I guess what I'm trying to say is - Brock Bowers excelled in the TE position at the highest level of college football, but UGA was smart enough to realize that his skill set would have been wasted just sticking him on the end of the line and not using him in multiple sets. But you need another, more traditional, tight-end to take full advantage of everything he brings.
I'm not worried about Hack, Rogers is smart enough to know how to use a weapon like Bowers. The game is changing, especially now with the ban on hip-drop tackles. Who's going to bring him down in space? In their last season together, Rodgers/Adams led the league in passes at or behind the line of scrimmage, something Bowers excels at. He's definitely the type of receiver Rodgers would love. Conklin, Ruckert, Yeboah, and Kuntz have a combined 7 touchdowns for their entire careers, and that includes Conklins 4 seasons with Cousins. No other player has stepped on the field and dominated the SEC from his freshman year like this guy has. I'm still all in on Alt if we can get him, or Harris Jr., if the football gods shined a light on us. Barring those two, I'm concerned about Odunze's lack of separation, and Nabers is Garrett Wilson, they are not complimentary players. For all the reasons listed above, I'm on the Bowers train (which probably means he's gone before 10).
Ok, that's fair. Nabers, definitely. He's special. Odunze, for me, is a toss-up. Solid player, who actually opened my eyes, because I thought much of his success was from playing against mediocre Pac-10 defenses. Turns out, the guy played big against top talent. A toss-up because I don't seen him bringing more value to the passing game than Bowers, and I think Bowers improves both the running AND passing game. Latham and Fashanu, no. I've followed Latham back as far as his recruitment. Really good player, but I don't think he was as exceptional as Alabama expected. With Fashanu, I can't say I focused in on the Penn State OL every game. But I watch closely enough that nothing ever struck me as Top-10 pick special.
I don't think so either. Supposedly in the 4.5 range. Who the hell knows for sure. At 240 pounds. But you're right - he didn't run at his pro day yesterday. Probably because he only just recovered from pulled hamstring. If you listen to that Todd Hartley clip I posted somewhere above, he says Bowers made a point to come in first in all their ten and thirty yard sprints. Although, we talkin about practice.
I don't know about the steal part, but do believe that he can be a real weapon in the NFL, just not on the Jets because of Hackett. Also, even if Hackett showed some creativity and why he was ever hired as an OC by anyone in the first place, it's all for naught when Smith goes down if there's not a capable backup and Rodgers gets seriously injured. I get why you and others want him so much. It would be awesome to have a creative, dynamic offense for once, but as long as Hackett is our OC and Saleh our HC, I just don't see that ever happening, and if we don't have solid OTs to protect the QB (whomever he is) going forward, the offense will never by dynamic.
Geezus. That’s a better explanation for why I like Brock Bowers with like 75% fewer words. Good stuff.
By now it's crystal clear there is a literal 0.0% chance of Hackett getting fired during this upcoming year as long as Aaron Rodgers is still in the weekly game day picture. Anybody claiming they want Bowers at #10 as a more GFIN year friendly piece is simultaneously putting their vote of confidence in Hackett being able to confidently utilize him. If somebody has to pussyfoot around that latter then by default they are not making convincing argument for the former.
Great job clarifying your position. I understand, and 98% of the time I will agree with you on value over need. This is a special situation, however. We have a 41-year-old QB who isn't very mobile any more who is coming off an achilles tear. Over the last 3-5 years or more, we've seen how not only a lot of our OL get injured, but how badly they play even when healthy. We also know that when a team's starting QB goes down with a serious injury, their season is over for all intents and purposes. I hate the situation the Jets are in now. They shouldn't be here, but they are. If JD had done a better job over the previous 2 years, we wouldn't be in the situation where we had no good young OTs on the roster. When one screws up, there is always a price to pay. IMO that price is having to pass up on a potential generational talent and star in Bowers or maybe Odunze, and take maybe the 2nd or 3rd best OT. Even if we could sign Bakhtiari and there was a guarantee that he'd be healthy when Smith goes down with injury, I'd still want to draft a topnotch OT prospect for the future. IMO the Jets aren't a team that can go all in and forget about the future. If the OL was set, I'd be right with you wanting Bowers or Nabers, but in the present situation, I see them as luxuries and OT as a necessity. It's far from ideal, and unless Alt or Fashanu are there at #10, it wouldn't be great value, but imo, the wisest course of action would be to draft an OT in the 1st round, be it at #10 or following a trade down. They can then hopefully add a good WR in the 3rd or 2nd round. I will say that if the Jets scouts and JD don't really like any of the OT prospects after Alt and Fashanu, then they probably should take Bowers or Odunze, and then trade next year's #2 if necessary to either move up in the draft so they can get an OT like Suamataia, Paul or Amegadjie, or trade for another team's competent backup or swing OT. Even then I'd be concerned that Bowers wouldn't be put in a position in which his talents could really make the Jets' offense dangerous, but he would be just good enough to keep Hackett and Saleh from getting fired.
Nah Bowers is a pick for the future of the Jets franchise. Rodgers and/or Hackett doesn't matter. And if they can't figure out how to use the talent assembled then smell ya later. TEs usually take a year or two anyway
Odunze, who everyone is creaming over, only ran a 4.45. So Bowers is going to have very similar measurables but with 20-30lbs on Odunze. They are the same height
IMO you should be. Rodgers can't use Bowers effectively if the plays aren't there in the playbook. Rodgers can't make up his own plays or play sandlot football. I agree with all your other points except for Harrison, Jr. I think he's gonna be a diva and a nightmare. I don't like his arrogance or his drop rate. I wouldn't touch him with a 10-foot pole.
Ok so who is this year's McD, where we almost to a person each say "who the heck is that?" "Didn't see that coming?" i remember last year there were also post pick comments (maybe they were same day) that JD was coveting J.Gibbs -- only to find Detriot coveted him highly too (most analysts had him much later in the 1st round)
It's funny. I think you're the only poster who really wants Bowers who says that he is a pick for the future. The rest are saying that he should be the pick in an "all-in" season. IMO the problem with your perspective is that Bowers could still be good enough this season that Saleh and Hackett are still here, but not utilized well enough to make him worth using the #10 pick on him.
He's remembering when MLF was here and the WRs had to know all three positions before they could see the field. I don't think that's true any more for WRs, and certainly wouldn't or shouldn't be for Bowers if the Jets take him.
if he's good enough this season then great. I'm not expecting an instant pro bowler here though and nobody should. He's being compared to Kittle. Kittle had an average rookie year and made a big jump in year 2. I expect a similar progression with Bowers no matter where he goes, because all good TEs are like that
