You assume a lot of facts not in evidence, i.e., no foundation made E.g., how do you know they underutilized conklin and ruckert? Maybe more juice was squeezed out of them than thought possible under the circumstances. Also why do you think a HOFQB would not throw to the guy if he was open and capable of wreaking havoc? It's not like ARod had a Bowers type player in the past. Also smart posters have raised the point that Bowers can be a mismatch, e.g., he has been split out side (a) creating problems -- do you cover him with a CB in which case he can muscle them up or cover him with a LB/S making the run defense weaker, and (b) when he's split out that's not over the middle of the field (where you seem to think Arod is allergic to throwing). i'm not trying to convince you of anything, but it would be nice to fairly consider the points being raised by the pro-Bowers camp. (i'm not advocating for him but i do think their arguments are very intriguing) Your arguments about Hackett might be true (and repetitive) but the same logic would apply to essentially any pick Jets make of an offensive player.
NO. Tyron Smith hasn't played a full season since 2015. Alijah Vera-Tucker has had season ending injuries in both his seasons in the league. Morgan Moses has been durable, but is no spring chicken. We need high end line depth and that needs to be the pick. Rogers will make the receiving corps great if he has time. There were guys running wide open all over the field last y ear, and our quarterbacks just couldn't get them the ball. 1 because they had no time, and 2 because they were all terrible. This whole thing falls apart if Rodgers gets hurt again and the GM and Coach will be fired. They need O line depth and need to take the best tackle available at 10.
AVT is good, Tipman seems good. Plus Mekhi as a rookie was great so at least from a draft evaluation/pick standpoint it's tough to fault him for that. (lots of other things to fault but as a rookie he seemed like future pro bowler) O-line coaching, constant shifting of positions and a crap field seem like the prime suspects. Throw in bad QB play and it's worse We need some more talent on line, and a QB who knows when to get rid of the ball.
Regarding Conklin and Ruckert, with Lazard being so bad and the Jets not having a reliable #2 WR, it's my opinion that the Jets could have used both Conklin and Ruckert more as receivers, and Ruckert more as a blocker. With regards to Rodgers, go and look at his stats in GB. I think it was here earlier in the offseason or perhaps last season, someone posted a link to an article about Rodgers showing charts of all his throws for the previous 5 seasons I believe. Rodgers is also on record as saying that he doesn't like to throw over the middle as there's too many players and too much chaos over the middle and it's easy to wind up throwing an interception. Just because you don't agree with my opinion doesn't mean that there isn't a strong rationale behind it. It's not just me seeming to think. You really should do some reading and learning before you insult other posters. You're showing your own ignorance, and you're the only one assuming anything.
Everything's not about value, especially when there is a critical need and it's the 2nd or 3rd most important position in all of football. If you think the Jets could get a LT in the 3rd or 4th round that could step in and play this season or start next season and play at a high level, you're delusional even in this deep OT class.
I think these drop rates may include freshman season, because the WRs above improved their drop rates for last year. I think more relevant is what we see from 2023: Harrison: 8.2 (didn't get better) Odunze: 3.2 Nabers: 5.3 Thomas: 6.8 R Wilson: 2.0 McConkey: 6.3 Bowers: 5.1 GW has 7.9 for reference. That wasn't great, but I don't think any of these are terrible, though you are right that Harrison is a bit high.
Those figures are definitely better. Where did you find your stats. I tried Googling individual players and collectively, and found contradictory information. It's interesting that the WRs most likely to go in the 2nd round, in general, have a lower drop rate. X. Leggette, R. Wilson, JL Polk, and M. Corley. I don't know about you, but I'd rather have a WR with a lower drop rate, so it sounds like adding one of Odunze, X. Leggette, M. Corley, Ja'Lynn Polk, and R. Wilson would be better. Drop rates I found for other WRs in the draft are as follows (please verify and correct as necessary) Xavier Leggette 2.7 this past season another site said 4.8% Malachi Corley 3.5% another side said 4.9%* Devontez Walker 8.5% (it was 6.8% at UNC) Johnny Wilson 8.2% but another site said 16.1% Xavier Worthy 5.4% - 6.3% (different sites had different percentages) Adonai Mitchell 4.5% another site said 1.7% Keon Coleman 7.2% another site said 3.8% Brian Thomas 6.8% another site said 3.8% Javon Baker 10.6% Ja'Lynn Polk 4.8% Troy Franklin 7.3% *One site said his drop rate was 4.9% (13 drops out of 361 targets) while another said it was 3.5% (13 drops out of 366 targets). What's even more amazing about Corley, is that most colleges offered him scholarships as a CB. Only W. KY offered him a scholarship as a WR, and he has only been playing WR for 4 years.
Awesome. I call you out for stating things as fact (literally). You respond it’s your opinion (i.e., not fact). And you call me ignorant. Very, very juvenile
You new here? btw.... one conveniently missed point, is that it's hard to judge / utilize receiving threats when you have a shitty QB....
I think the comparison on dropped balls has more meaning when compared to how the pros did, and the better metric is using catchable balls rather than targets. For example: Puka Nacua had a 11% drop rate for catchable balls and 8% using targeted balls. Tyreek Hill......9% catchable.........7% targeted Amon Ra St. Brown.....6%.........5% Devante Adams......7%........4.5% Stefon Diggs...........7%........5% All of these guys were the top receivers with at least 1000 yards receiving and the most number of drops. Puka, for example led the league in drops with 13, Hill had 12, St Brown, Adams and Diggs all had 8, Source: https://www.fantasypros.com/nfl/advanced-stats-wr.php
Yes, they play with worse QBs in college, obviously, and they take more consistent statistics in the NFL anyway. “Drop rate” for a college receiver is not a good metric. Jerry Rice probably woulda scored pretty low at Mississippi Valley State lol
Haha no not new, but new to being called ignorant by NC shitty QB play also makes it tough to evaluate the line too. p.s. love your signature line.
I used PFF to see this data: https://premium.pff.com/ncaa/positions/2023/REGPO/receiving?division=fbs&draftYear=2024 For GW I used his last College season too to have apple to apple. I also spot checked Olave's last year - 7.1, as well as Zay Flowers (9.3), Nacua (5.9). It seems like @BrowningNagle is onto something there saying drop rate does not necessarily translate. Obviously we don't want to see a super high number, but it looks like the top WRs for this year have acceptable rate.
MY problem w Bowers is that he IS a TE, and we already have 4 TEs. As NC, CC, and Ouchy have pointed out, we NEED quality bodies on that OL. If Smith or Moses go down (likely), WE...ARE...SCREWED! A team generally plays FIVE OL per snap, but just one TE. The only thing stupider than taking a TE at 10 would be taking another edge rusher. After McDonald last year at 15, nothing from Douglas would surprise me.
I think you’d find bowers to be very different than the other 4 TEs on the roster if he’s a Jet he will eventually be beloved but offensive line is a real need in 2024. Idk I personally don’t think the Jets will be worth a shit in 2024 anyway so might as well take the long term unique piece in Bowers
Spot on! This shouldn't be complicated. The Jets desperately need a reliable, long term solution at LT. There are good candidates in this draft. Draft one. Yes, we all understand that you need playmakers, but if the plays blow up before they get their hands on the ball, they're taken out of the mix. Why people can't - or won't - grasp this is interesting, if not mindboggling. Trying to justify taking a WR - let alone a TE - instead of a stud Tackle by touting "production" stats simply muddies the water (which is probably their intent). How do you measure "production" of an OL in comparison to a skill player? You can't, there's no direct correlation. But the reality is that no skill player can accrue "production" if he can't get his hands on the ball, and the OL is directly involved in whether that happens or not. OL at #10, (or with their very first pick if they trade back a bit), it's really that simple. Only if somehow none of the "Big 3" tackles are there at #10 or whenever they go to pick, should they consider anything else, at at that point it should be the best WRA. Maybe Bowers could be used like a WR, but would he in this offense? If Andy Reid were the HC I'd say, sure, but he isn't. Instead we have a defensive minded HC who has shown no understanding of offense, and an OC who seems clueless. Bowers would be wasted here. That's the reality.
I'm not alone in saying that Conklin and Ruckert were underutilized by Hackett, yet I notice that I'm the only one you accuse of stating my opinion as fact. Just because you interpret the way someone says something does mean that you are correct in the way you interpret it. Ever consider that the problem is in your interpretation? What I said about Rodgers IS a fact. You're just another casual fan who doesn't bother to do a lot of reading and research, disappears from the forum every year for large chunks of time, misses things that were posted, and then questions others out of your own ignorance because you don't have the same knowledge they do. Have a nice life.
It is mindboggling, yet every year there are fans who have "interesting" takes that don't make common sense or football sense, and there are fans who want to trade up every year and think it the right thing to do.
Jesus! what are you 13? have some humility, man. I saw the signature line where you're saying you'll leave the forum if the Jets trade Zach. Ends up Zach sucks so much that they can't even trade him and you go around lecturing as if you know more than others. So tell me again how smart you are because i'm having a hard time having that sink in. Yes you're entitled to your opinions, but that doesn't change the "fact" that you say a lot, as in a LOT, of dumb, immature things. p.s. (edit) for the record and verifiable I was in the trade down from 2 camp Zach's year. (I guess that makes me smarter than you!) Once he was drafted i cheered him on because that's what real fans do
I don't grasp it because i don't think it's as simple as you need X just draft X. ANd i say this having advocated to trade back in Zach's year for Sewall and assets. I love OL. The logic of you need X, draft X yielded Zach-- the need clouded objective judgment The issue in my mind is that it's not like just going to the grocery store and you get a reliably good and healthy OL simply because some Mel Kiper type says this guy does this or that. Our own experience is instructive. We picked Mekhi at 11. Awesome rookie, got hurt, never the same. AVT was 14; I like hi. he's been hurt a lot. So yes we found good, but not reliable. You can look in some of those same drafts for other OL who were never good Evan Neal etc. This is probably worse. Or some (e.g., Andrew Thomas) who stunk as rookies (when we're seeming needing to count on them because we expect Smith or Moses to go down). And while i'm not advocating for a WR, Joe picked a pretty damn good one in that same draft slot. I think they need to go BPA taking positional value into account. Sometimes you need to move around some to get the better values. So far Joe seems to do better moving up (e.g., AVT and JJ) than moving back (e.g., Mims). I think he's done a better job spotting OL talent in the draft than he has had with trades. I don't know if evaluation can well predict who will get hurt or not. If so, he hasn't done a good job with that. If not, and injuries are dumb luck, I'm not too unhappy with his OL drafting
