Let’s keep AVT at guard! There are no good starting tackles with 32 inch arms in the NFL. Forcing AVT to play tackle is taking a chance on another major injury!
I feel what you are sensing is the board's overall long term disappointment with JD. "They" are still operating under the delusion that they are SB contenders in 2024 and these signings don't get us there. In any other year Tyrod Taylor would be celebrated, I think. However, with the better than average shot that Taylor will play somewhere between a quarter and half the season, his durability is a question. If this is what our #2 is then what does our #3 look like? The O-Line signings are suffering from JD's poor history at assembling a o-line. I think that's what you are "feeling." I could be wrong...
IMO AVT doesn't belong at OT at all. I believe that both of his injuries came when he was playing OT.
That's just not accurate. Giving up 22 spots in the 4th is not theoretical, it has real value, and that value can be estimated. I don't know any GM who is willing to give up 22 spots in the 4th round for nothing. So, you can't just say a 6th for Moses is good, because we gave up more than that. I agree with @KY Jets Fan estimation that we are looking at a value of an early 5th round pick that we gave up. You can make an argument that it is not make or break, but that's a completely different story. We certainly gave up more than just a 6th, there is no factual debate that can be had about that. So, the question is: is giving up what we did (a value of a 5th round pick) for a 33 year old RT, who is still playing at high level at a very cheap price point, worth it? I think the answer is a resounding yes. Moses' play hasn't declined at all. He did miss a few games last year, which he normally didn't in the past, and coupled with age and being likely a one year rental is probably why he was available in the first place. But for us - we needed someone like Moses since ... the time Moses left. Clearly JD is not spending this year. It's going to bargain basement players, and Moses, who is underpaid and fits the bargain price JD is looking for, actually raises the floor of our OL by quite a bit. Finally a really good move at OT, which we needed for a while. Can't stop there though, we still need to draft an OT early, and sign one more. And need another OG as well to compete with Simpson or be a top back-up, plus a C. A lot of work to do, but his was a good move.
I just looked up Peat on NFL.com, Wikipedia and the Saints Depth Chart from 2022 and 2023. He has been primarily their LG. He played a couple of games at LT in 2018, and was their LT last season. I've always seen him listed on FA lists as an OG and he's on the RT page this year on Spotrac, but listed as G. That's what confused me. I don't remember where I read that about Williams. It was an article several weeks ago talking about the OTs who would be FAs. He was moved from LT, when the Bengals signed Orlando Brown, Jr. Williams balked at first, and asked to be traded, but then changed his mind.
No, I think I'm using "objectively" correctly. In what world is it not an objectively good move to acquire a starting-caliber RT for the equivalent of the 5th round pick? We'll see soon enough if Moses can maintain his level of play or if Father Time will catch up with him this season but other than the fact that he's 33, what indications do we have that he won't, at the very least, be a serviceable RT for us next season?
I’d be interested in seeing how many players pan out at whatever fourth round pick we had and how many pan out at the one we have now. I’d be willing to bet the difference is minuscule. That’s my point.
Does this signing mean Max Mitchel and his Covid-Blood-Clots is on the outs? Max seemed to have done really good at RT until his medical condition sat him down. Anyone know his status? Maybe GM Rodgers wants as many VETS on the oline as possible?
Feels like they like Max and Warren as depth but if we do add another OT, like a Bakhtiari, I could see them moving on from Max and have Bakh and Warren as the primary backups for each OT spot.
Keep in mind these moves also provide some flexibility in the draft Who knows who is there at 10? If it’s some stud RT we can still draft him. If there isn’t, we don’t need to reach now There are certainly good FA signings, but when it comes to the “named” guys my sense is there are more bad than good. They are available for a reason. Not necessarily that they suck (though there are plenty of those) but because they want more money than their current team (who has insider knowledge on them and sees them a lot at practice, locker room etc) deems they’re worth My opinion is relax and hope for the best. All the negativity is absurd. It’s supposed to be fun
oof if they go into the season with 2 old run-down starting tackles in Bahkiarti and Moses, next year will play out the same way as this year did injuries and shuffling all season
I don't think they'd give Bakhtiari the starting job automatically. Even if they add him, I still think it's highly likely we go OT at 10. Bakhtiari on a cheap deal as our primary swing OT seems like a good outcome for all parties.
I am not saying that we paid too much, I am very much in favor of the deal. But I am calling spade a spade: we gave more than a 6th. We would have to check how many pan out who are 22 spots higher in the 4th AND also 6th rounders. Combining that will probably result in something similar to the number of players panning out in the early 5th. Hence they have this formula @KY Jets Fan used. This is of course approximation. But you cannot approximate 6th AND 22 spot jump in 4th to just a 6th. 5th - probably. Again, I think this was still worth it and a much needed upgrade. I do expect some drop off, and don't buy PFF rating him top 10 last year, I do think he was good for sure, and he can be above average RT for us this year, who will play vast majority of the season. That is an enormous upgrade from the worst RT in NFL we had last year.
Max has never done really good. This is a bit of a misconception, based on the fact he was drafted from a small school as a developmental player and wasn't expected to play at all. Then was forced into action. So, anything we got out of him was a bonus. But let's make no mistake, he still was terrible when he played. I remember in one game (Bears?) he was so awful he was replaced with PS guy Cedrick. But, again, 1st year he gets a full pass. In the second year though an improvement was expected. Instead he was just as bad, maybe even worse. He is very unathletic with short arms greatly limiting his potential. He cannot play inside either because he is not strong enough. I am not sure why he went in the 4th round (this certainly wasn't a consensus 4th round guy, and hopefully scouted by one of the guys who left this year), but more likely than not he should be moved to PS, unless he shows some unexpected drastic improvement in training camp.
Btw, I think Dick Chimney summed it up the best. "Quick thoughts on Morgan Moses to the #Jets: Pros: Short-term fix at right tackle. Cost-effective for bargain-hunting Jets ($5.5M) and reasonable compensation (gave up a 6 and swapped 4s). All things considered, a solid add, especially in a watered-down tackle market. Solid character guy. Cons: He's 33 and showed signs of wearing down last season. Missed 3 games with a shoulder injury (first time since '14 he sat with an injury) and was used in a late-season rotation. Allowed a team-high 8.5 sacks, per@NextGenStats Have to ask the question: Why would the Ravens cut bait on a player with such a team-friendly contract?"" Baltimore is not giving away a top notch bargain priced tackle for an equivalent of a 5th round pick. At this point I see a range of opinions on Moses is that he is average to very good. Clearly Baltimore thinks he is closer to average. Maybe a little above average is a fair expectation. If we combine it with Simpson, who is probably below average starter, we can say with these two signings together we plugged two OL staring spots with average production. Which is significantly better than terrible production last year, so a net net good improvement. However, someone mentioned this gives us flexibility in the draft. It absolutely does not. We still need a young stud OT on the roster. Even if we sign Fant or Bakhtiari. Clearly JD is not spending big bucks on a stud young guy in Free Agency, nor are there many options there to begin with. In the draft the only option is a tackle. Ideally someone who can play LT as well, not just RT, since Morgan is only RT.
There's some good info there. Concerning to hear he ended up in a rotation and did miss some time last year, which I didn't know. This changes how I'm thinking about the draft and still fully expect an OT at 10 now. We'd be fortunate to get one good season starting out of Moses.
Another key point is that Moses' contract is a fraction of what some of these OL guys are getting in free agency. I think this is a great move considering the mess we were/are in. This move stops the bleeding, buys time, and gives potential flexibility to your top draft pick all in one fell swoop. While as an added, not insignificant kicker, your getting a proven guy who wants to be here. I guess ripping the Jets for not making sure they kept him before is fair given hindsight. But sometimes the crystal ball malfunctions and doesn't show the future completely clearly. I'm sure we could fix a lot of problems if we went back 2 years ago knowing everything we know now. I'd like a re-do on the 2021 draft personally.
I think this is important to point out when considering how I feel about this guy, now that I've had time to digest and assess. Look at who's behind center for the Ravens. That's the current league MVP there and if you are giving up almost 10 sacks on a dude that is basically a moving nightmare then that says something. When a Super Bowl caliber team is letting go a guy then it begs to be questioned, "why?" Aren't the Jets trying to be a Super Bowl caliber team? I "think" that's what they said for 2023....er....2024 now. If Moses was a SB caliber player he would still be on the Ravens roster. ESPECIALLY with how hard it is to find O-linemen these days. I don't know. I'm basically 90/10 on disliking the move. BOTH moves actually. "IF" this team is supposedly Super Bowl bound and all we need is O-line and a #2 WR, based on the unmitigated disaster last year turned out to be, then why the running around bringing in "average" players. An "average" o-line isn't going to get it done.
