Yeah this goes to the OC and HC I guess under the general talk track that sure he sucks, but our coaching staff isn’t helping him either. I do remember when Parcells got here and brought in Vinny, who hadn’t really been all that good until then..and I remember the commentary that basically Parcells told him to look at the first read and hit it if its open and if it’s not, just tuck and run…back in the day when he could actually run. Zach would need a total baby system like that to have any chance…here Zach…look HERE at THIS GUY, and if he’s not open, then just tuck and run and get what you can. Because clearly expecting him to walk up to the line and understand the defense and make a line call and then read the field based on what the play call is against what the defense is showing you is just WAY above his ability. He hasn’t improved in this AT ALL in like 30 games. He STILL misses open guys and doesn’t know what to do with the ball. And he has like zero anticipation of what the receivers are actually going to do, which is why he puts them in harms way…he waits until he sees them opening up and throws it then but shit by then the DB saw the same thing. Just good fucking riddance already…get him off the fucking team he sucks.
After reading the posts here from Wilson Island the past few weeks I expect by any metric the participants on Facebook far outscore those on Reddit.
Look guys, Zach sucks, but unfortunately Boyle didn't do much better in that game, that's just a fact. If there is one starter in NFL who did worse statistically than Zach, it's him. I will be rooting like heck for him, but he was brutal last game. He should have had 2 picks in 14 throws. He may be getting the ball out quick, but where does that ball go? INTs is a huge concern. I am actually shocked the guy has been in NFL for 6 years. His College career was awful. Whenever he played in NFL, including a little bit last year and last game he was awful. The only good performance he had was the last preseason game. Maybe he can replicate some of that, but given what I saw last Sunday we need to pray, just like we have all season.
Who cares. It is something else to watch rather than zach which we have seen for 2.5 years already. we have seen him suck ass. lets enjoy someone else sucking ass.
We know, we know but they ran out of excuses and with the D finally caving, they didn't have a choice. He maynot be any better and I am sure he isn't but this is a golden opportunity to slam the OC PC and scheme... if the guy actually moves the ball - not likely with this OL - then we will have an idea that the PC/scheme was limited based on ZW...which i believe it was.
Absolutely. I am not implying at all we should stay with Zach, he probably should be waived at this point, but I guess JD wants to see if he can get something back in the offseason. Either way, he played his last snap as a Jet. I am just a little frustrated JD didn't get a more viable option. But, I am praying for Boyle, and some luck this Friday. If he can have a few drives where we score TDs and the defense steps up if he turns it over, who knows... Crazier things have happened. We are all team Boyle now.
I didn't realize Boyle was that much bigger than Zach. Boyle is 6'4" 232lbs. Hopefully he can see the middle of the field without having to roll out.
Zach's problem is not the height. He just doesn't have a good processor. He is now able to make easy throws that he could not make last year, and he can still make big throws, but without being able to process, it is just not good enough. That's why he couldn't quite get rid of the problem of not throwing fast. Whenever he is able to throw right away, he OK. But a lot of times first read is not there. At that point he doesn't want to throw a pick and most of the time he doesn't see the openings fast enough. With OLine not helping, and no obvious open WRs right away, he does not want to turn it over and holds onto the ball and gets sacked or hit or bails. There is only a few easy throws available all game. He improved by making them, but that is only marginal improvement. Processing and football IQ is still a problem. But it has nothing to do with the height.
The one thing Boyle looks better at is getting the ball out quick. Where that ball ends up is a concern. If Tim Boyle puts up a decent game... and decent means better than any of Zach's last 4 games... this board will explode with the "what ifs" & the "if only's". Who knows... maybe Boyle's jersey will wind up in Canton next to Mike White's...
Boyle (or any other QB) doesn't even need to be good, just competent. A few extra first downs to give the defense a rest, a touchdown or two, and we have a chance to win games. I'm not worried about picks because when the defense is "on", they can mitigate those mistakes. It's about giving the rest of the team some hope at this point so they don't feel like the coaching staff is tossing in the towel before they even step on the field.
One thing I will tell you about him, is somehow he finds his way onto NFL squads every year. I mean look at his stats in College: https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/tim-boyle-1.html This is when he was in FBS: 48% completion, 1 TD, 13 INTs. Then he goes to FCS. The is the League which bust Lance dominated as a 20 year old. Boyle is now 23, and has a poor year even for FCS. 11 TDs, 13 INTs, 61% completion. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Boyle_(American_football) Then somehow ends up on preseason squad in GB and has a great preseason. Spends 3 years there, then goes to Detroit, spends a year there, starts in 3 games and sucks. The stays on Detroit PS, and is signed to the main roster by Chicago, Briefly plays throwing 8 passes, two of them INTs. Comes to NYJ, has a decent preseason, 3 so so games, and one good game, and is on the main roster again, playing poorly as a sub. He should have had 2 picks in 14 throws, but ended with one. Now set to start. He is 29 years old now, and gets another chance. This is absolutely remarkable journeyman story. I mean a poor College player somehow holds on to the rosters of 4 different NFL teams over 6 years playing like shit every chance he got aside from preseason. Can he provide a Mike White like spark? I personally don't see it, particularly after what I saw on Sunday, but I remember Mike also sucked coming in as a sub against NE before having a good game. Crazier things have happened. Wish had a better supporting cast and a play caller, but it is what it is. Maybe there is a Thanksgiving Miracle coming up.
Yeah good points. I'd just add that his pocket presence is a disaster too. He is totally unable to work within the pocket while keeping his eyes downfield. He needs tremendous protection to feel comfortable enough to stay in the pocket. He often flees pockets clean enough where he could work within them, and by the time he flees, the timing of the routes is totally off and he's playing backyard football hoping a guy gets open outside of the route structure.
That's very true, though he did improve that area and does not bail every time. But he does need a good line. With this line I feel even Mike White would fail too though as he has similar problem, though manifested in a different way where he just stands like a statue and gets hit if there is nothing there. Well at least he did in the beginning until he was folded in half. Then he started looking over his shoulder and sucked. The way the current team is constructed I am not even sure even Rodgers would succeed. But I do want to see what Boyle can do in a full game. If he can have a 1TD 2 INT game and have another drive where Breece scores plus a FG here and there, we might actually win. Boyle also didn't really get hit much in his career, unlike Zach and Mike White playing behind JD's lines, plus he is a bigger dude. So he might be fearless for a few games and make a few extra throws while getting brutally hit, until he inevitably gets destroyed by this OLine. Maybe there is a chance for Friday and a couple of more to follow? After that we can sacrifice Siemian again.
This conversation about Zach's pocket presence reminds me of the start of his rookie season when the OL was an absolute disaster and Wilson was getting obliterated the first few games. Couldn't have asked for a worse start to a QB's career protection-wise. Zach likely would've been bad either way, but I can't help but think that contributed to his awful pocket presence. JD's persistent failures with the OL really are something to behold.
Remember how JD promised Sam's mom he would protect him? He did get Becton, but never actually built a complete unit. JD's lines are a joke. He also gave Sam - Perriman as a top WR. Now, Sam and Zach are probably anyway not turning out to be great players, but JD sure didn't help.
Look…we absolutely failed Zach in the development dept no question. Not an excuse and regardless, he sucks. However, it’s hard to deny that when you have a rookie QB, with a rookie HC and a rookie OC and you’re playing him behind a terrible OL and no receivers worth a damn, he’d have to be Peyton Manning or Dan Marino or John Elway to come out of that looking decent. That’s on the team. JD, Saleh, all of it. Again, though, it’s not just that that did him in…he can’t even do the basic shit right. Way too many off target throws to guys in the flat with no pressure in his face. That was him. So the combo…you draft a kid who played at a tier 2 school … he wasn’t facing many (any?) future NFL players at BYU. Not like playing in the Big 10 or SEC where you ARE playing kids who will be in the league. On top of that, he had like one good year during covid. So basically drafting a raw kid who really needed development and you throw him out there with the cards stacked against him. He sucks, yes…but we did him no favors either.
