Where did I get it wrong? Be specific. Why are you so anxious to post nebulous stats in the same discussion where you have decried the use of stats? Why are team stats credited to Wilson? Where did your fourth down career passing stat come from?
read it again lol you can't even read right and want to make a conversation over your misreading? you really need to be less of a sea lion
IDK why I give you so many chances but here i'll throw you a bone "So taking those 4 stats, I can say they "prove" he's one of the most clutch QBs all time. realistically speaking though, thats bullshit and he isn't." I was showing how stats can lie when people twist them to context they want it to say even tough it's clearly wrong. the stat is career 4th down passer rating (minimum of 15 attempts or something like that)
This is getting so exhausting… Of COURSE stats can lie. They can paint a skewed picture when (a) you cherry pick the few stats that support one side of an argument, and/or (b) you take stats over too small a sample size, like one half of a game, or one game, etc. The point that many here are making, and the point that I just don’t understand your absolute stance on denying it, is that we are NOT cherry picking or looking at too small a sample (despite your comparison to baseball with 182 games or however many they play). When you look at Zach’s stats IN TOTALITY … there are MANY…we can look at the NFL’s QB Rating, ESPN’s QBR, basic stats like completion rate, yards per attempt, yards per game, TD’s per game, total TD’s, TD-Pick rate, and so forth. For Zach, over a 30 game period already, they are ALL at or near the bottom of the league. All of them. He isn’t even midpack in any of those key ones. Maybe he is in 4th Q comebacks like you’ve pointed out…great! That shows that while overall he’s been a terrible QB, in fact one of the worst in the league, in spite of that, he DID have some great moments. He has done REALLY WELL in a few 4th quarters! Great! The stats actually SHOW that. Imagine that??? And sure, we can cherry pick examples all day…so for example, he SHOULD have had a TD pass on Monday night since he hit Uzomah in the end zone in the fucking chest and that dude inexplicable dropped the ball. So that goes as an incomplete pass instead of the TD it SHOULD have been. Great…no argument there…but you know what, that kind of offsets many of the other opportunities where he missed an open guy in the end zone and didn’t throw it to him because he can’t see the field…there have been several of those as have been pointed out in these game review threads. So that kind of stuff evens out. Maybe not over a half, or a game, or even 2 or 3 games maybe, but over a season? Over 2 seasons? Over 30 games? For damn sure it does. Your argument that the sample size is too small is just wrong. You don’t need 182 games like baseball because its a different game. Most players probably don’t even play 182 games total in their career even…. You also can’t use the other argument you’re fond of, in picking Mahomes out and say look he had a bad day against us so he must suck, or his QB rating is not top ten so he’s not a top ten QB…because I would be very confident in saying that hey, by the end of the year, he will be top ten in rating, and the eye test and the results and the stats will line up with all of that. Moreover, if you say look this is a team game and so let’s look at the overall team performance, then I can agree with that as well. And sure enough, our offenses under Zach have been bottom of the barrel in SO MANY categories as well….you name it…yards per game? Touchdowns? Red Zone efficiency? Third down conversions? Sure…we are bottom of the league or close to it in all of those as well. So when the overwhelming statistical evidence is so squarely pointing to the same conclusion, and when you watch the tape and the games and just observe, the eye test matches that as well. You can’t say that the stats are meaningless. You just can’t…that is just a gaslighting argument and I honestly don’t know why you are so set on that hill. I can agree that stats don’t always tell the whole story, I will agree that stats in a vacuum without context don’t always tell the whole story. I will agree that you should just watch the games and the tape and see with your own eyes and not just google stats. But I will NOT agree that they are meaningless nor will I agree that they don’t reflect reality with Zach. They DO mean something. The funny part to me is that, without putting words in your mouth, what I THINK your position on Zach is, is that he’s not very good, he’s clearly a backup, and while not very good still, at least he’s a little bit better than he’s been his first two years. And there are A LOT of issues with our offense, most notably poor OL play and poor receiver play outside of GW, so that there aren’t many other QBs who would be successful in this offense anyway. Correct me if I’m wrong…but from reading your posts, I THINK that’s your stance on him. Honestly I feel pretty much the same way. I think Zach has sucked all along, I get he had bad OLs and bad OCs and bad receivers, and in football, all of that matters. But great QBs, Franchise QBs, rise above all that and elevate the team. And if you’re drafted 2 overall to be the FQB, that’s the bar. Sorry but it is. He hasn’t even come close. He most likely NEVER will, because from my opinion, he lacks the fundamental football mentality, IQ, whatever you want to call it, to play QB at a great level. He has the arm and the mobility and the toughness but he doesn’t have it between the ears. He has no feel for the game, he can’t see the field, he can’t anticipate receivers routes, and he has poor pocket awareness. Can these things be taught? I honestly don’t know, but I think if you don’t have them coming into the NFL, it’s gotta be REALLY hard to learn them at this level. Anyway…I just don’t understand why you’re so steadfast in denying ALL value on stats when in this case, the overwhelming evidence is that they are actually reflecting reality. Zach is not good. In fact, he’s one of the worst in the league. Yes, we have SERIOUS issues on O outside of Zach, no doubt, but he is the QB and he is the biggest issue and that’s just the way it is with that position…probably gets too much credit or too much blame sometimes, but it’s the field leader, and he has failed in that across the board…and the stats reflect that.
lol. 1st off I never said zach was good. I've said quite the opposite. there is a reason we brought in rodgers. zach is a backup QB in the NFL or a really bottom tier starter depending on the talent pool. it's still better then he was last year though. right now he's playing like the 25ish best QB out of 32 starters. there is a lack of talent in the NFL at QB. lots of greats retired in the past 5 years and not enough has come out to replace them. thats why people like boyle and simian and peterman and barkley still have jobs. desperation. 2nd of all there isn't a single snap in the NFL thats the same as the other. everyone is dependent on everyone. plus scheme, teammates, play calls etc. We've seen it so many times. the fact that outlets like PFF exists, teams have scouting departments, even saleh himself just said you have to watch the film to judge a performance, do you not remember the famous bellichick line from 10+ years ago? "A year ago, Patriots coach Bill Belichick was asked to explain the decline in statistical production from Randy Moss, and he bristled at the question. “Stats are for losers,” Belichick said then. ESPN made their own QB grading system because the stat one sucked according to them. PFF threw out stats completly and grade on film. AWS has "advanced stats" tracking things via GPS but really all it comes down to is clicks and talking points because it's easy and lazy. it takes 1 second to google a stat. it takes hours to watch film and money to pay for the all 22 film and you have to focus it out and see things for the sum of the whole. all a stat does is record a result. it doens't record how that result got reached. I've seen plenty of QBs throw pick 6s. I seen mahomes throw a perfect ball that got dropped and turned into a pick 6. stat wise they are the same play. skill wise it wasn't mahomes fault. until stats can actually account for and reflect things like that, they can't accurately judge a performance. Adams stats have sucked this year. he's barely on pace to break 1000 after back to back 1500 yard seasons. is it becuase he's declining? or is it becuase jimmy G sucks and is worse then carr and now they have AOC and their play calling was ass. it's the later. adams is still a beast. but the stats say he's declining with a 33% drop in production.
But here we are. We can look ahead to our next game, and write post after post about how bad our offense is, how bad Zach Wilson is, how bad our WR room is outside Garrett, how bad Hackett is, and how bad we're gonna get killed. Or I can look forward to the game, hope that the good spots we've seen on and off over the last 2-1/2 years somehow come together and we get a solid win on the road. I can hope ZW has a game like he had against the Chefs. It's the only team we have. The only players we have. We're going to war with the soldiers we got, and to me, that is the bottom line. I'm gonna look for positives, ANY positives that gives me at least some hope for a good game. If on the other hand I allow myself to become convinced we're the worst team in the league and won't win another game, I'd probably just stop watching. All this crying over ZW or Saleh or Lazard or Hackett is for the off-season.
Zach has looked considerably better than last year. He is Athletic, so him have 4 seconds+ to throw is a little misleading, as he buys time. However, he does have issues with holding the ball too long, and not feeling the pressure. But the oline is doing him no favors, guys dropping the easy passes aren't doing him no favors, and those stupid penalties are doing Zach no favors. Zach may not be the answer, but i think many QBs wouldn't do well behind this oline. Personally I think the Jets abandoned the run way too early last wk, got costly penalties on offense, and the qb needs to play a little faster. Breece/Cooke need to run the ball way more.
Hack needs to go wildcat with Breece, Bawden and Cooke in redzone. Take Zach out of the equation, so we don’t lose yards when in FG range. He doesn’t process fast enough to score.
Every snap in the NFL is different from every other one, so given all the variables in play, you can’t possibly compare one athlete’s performance against another’s. Jeff George could’ve been Johnny Unitas, controlling for all variables.
Typing the same non-response over and over does nothing to prove your point. Why not just support your claims once and for all? There you go again; you claim three team stats "prove" something about Wilson - they do not. Didn't you just mention something about people twisting stats? That applies to you too. That may be proof enough for you, you can say whatever you want, but you don't get to decide for anyone else. And what's the point of repeating your version of a "stat" when the source of your claim is in question? Simply reading somebody's anonymous nonsense on Reddit or Quora doesn't make it true. "or something like that." Hah!
I'd be curious to see how Mac Jones would do on the Jets right now. Career-wise Jones has been better, but he's in shambles this year.
stroud? hell no lol. stroud is a stud already. jones? this year zach has been better then him. years 1-2 jones was better. dobbs? kinda even and debatable this year. he's made way more mistakes then zach but he's also made more plays. zach is playing safer which comes at the coaches direction.
OMG read dude! I didn't claim that. you have to learn to read and understand. WTF is wrong with you sometimes. how can you read the same thing over and over and still read it wrong?
I think people are overreacting to how bad the line has been playing. I’ve been watching all-22 for all the games so far. Zach had plenty of clean pockets and missed the read either through lack of pre-snap judgement and post-snap processing. The line was competent enough against the Chargers especially in the 1st half. The turnovers all came from bad mistakes by our offensive playmakers, Zach, GWilson, and Zach/Breece. If you see single high with man coverage - and you have 4 routes running out/mid to deep, why take the strip sack on 2nd and 1 on the 50, just tuck and run up for a few yards. Turner was beat but you exploit the pressure there to get the 1st down. This is bad QBing. Zach has been playing zones, until Giants and Chargers came recently. He struggles when it’s man coverage, that’s why he can’t beat the Patriots. Year 3 and he still can’t beat man. Very obvious at this point.
I given you pleanty of context but as you usually do, an others posters have pointed out, when the logic is correct, you fold like a cheap suit.
