I posted every throw. Feel free to point things out. Even Nania, after the fact was less harsh on Zach. Just be fair.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying everything is his fault by any stretch. But he is still holding the ball too long, he’s still making pretty bad decisions a lot of the time, and he is just not doing anything to help this team win. Before yesterday, he wasn’t doing much to help them lose either, which was a good thing. Yesterday, he would have lost this game for them if not for that final drive where the Giants handed us the game. At the end of the day, mistakes are made, but you expect your quarterback to be able to bail you out when he has the opportunity. This guy has not shown any ability to do that at all, in fact, everything else is bailing him out. I’m actually pretty good at taking the emotion out of it, believe it or not. Looking at this practically, he regressed a lot yesterday.
If he was even decent, he would have somehow found a way to catch that ball that fell at his feet 2 feet away from him. Guy is just not that good.
I have no problem with you feeling this way but please point out what you are saying. He is holding the ball too long (Once twice what play?), Pretty bad decisions (What play what throw?) The argument is much more convincing when you provide evidence. I hope it is more than one or two plays.
A couple of things I liked about Zach yesterday. His toughness and willingness to step up in the pocket and take the hit. He has been crucified on this board for not being willing to take the hit. He took a few big hits yesterday including at least one that would have been called RTP on anyone else. I also saw him get pissed for the first time I like the fire.
I will definitely give him credit for hanging in there, I will give him credit for being resilient, I will give him credit for not giving up. I’m not a Zach hater, I try to be objective. However, at the end of the day, we’re talking about production on the football field. I cannot give him all that much credit there. He’s not producing. If you want to argue that he didn’t have the tools to do so, that’s fine, you’re entitled to feel that way if you want to. As for evidence, I can’t give you any deep evidence other than what the eye test tells me. I’m not one of those guys to go back and look at the game over and over, so I will just tell you that it was more than a couple of plays, but even if it was a couple of plays at key times, that’s important too. You pointing out that a couple of plays doesn’t make a bad quarterback completely contradicts your assertion that a couple of plays makes a good quarterback.
Rewatching all the throws again this morning ( thanks @cval ) ZW wasnt as bad as i felt initially. Bad weather, 4th string OLmen, miscommunication and drops played a role. Also can we see some more playaction? Butttttttt, the bad ZW habits can back today. The 10 yard back pedaling. The missed short throw. Not throwing it away and taking the sack. Saleh says it's not HOW but HOW MANY. If this continues to be the HOW, there aren't gonna be a lot of HOW MANYS.
Was just coming here to post the Nania thing. Some really bad drops. https://x.com/Michael_Nania/status/1718967183823298994?s=20 Will watch the YT video you shared after work, looking forward to it. The one to Hall that he dropped looked like it would have been a massive gain from what I remember.
The one throw to Garrett Wilson I believe, on a corner route, might go in the Book of Mormon as a dropped pass but it was wayy late and it allowed the defender to get his arm in between the receivers hands. So while it was "on target" I guess, on target is useless if the ball is thrown too late -- Garrett Wilson had another one where he technically couldnt haul in a ridiculous catch on the sideline. (ball late and out too far). His standards are high so what we think of as a drop for him really is unfair
The play he backpedaled on he actually completed, To be fair the pressure was straight up the middle. The missed throw was bad but could be blamed on the weather, but I think he just tried to guide it and you saw happened. To me, there were a few plays where he held the ball to long, and two of them were on the first drive and the fourth down play. It is hard to tell before the all 22 comes out if he was afraid to throw into tight coverage. I do not think we ran near enough screens. Get the ball in Breece's hands in any way possible.
I rewatched all the throws (and the other plays). Thanks for the link. After a night's sleep and time to reflect, and watching the tape, I don't feel quite as harsh about Zach's performance. These were some of the more obvious things that struck me that affected his performance: At 2:58 the Incomplete to GW was definitely PI, but of course no flag. The pass was on target and had GW not been held would've caught it. 4:42 3rd down pass not held onto (I couldn't see who the receiver was). The defender made a good play, but the ball was perfectly placed into a very tight window. 5:37 Lazard doesn't hang onto a very catchable ball. 10:20 Zach hit as he throws, hard enough that his pad comes out of his jersey, but no RTP. 11:15 Pass to GW along right sideline about 20-25 yards downfield, hits GW in the numbers but Garrett can't hang when he's hit. 12:45 Zach takes horrible sack. Another example of lack of situational awareness or "Hero" mentality, or both. Inexcusable. If I go back to watch it some more I'm sure I'll see some other things, but on balance, I'm still left with the overall feeling I had at the end of the game: Not good enough. Still holding onto the ball too long. He needs to make decisions quicker and get rid of the ball. Period. Yes he was under a LOT of pressure, but frankly, he had to know that was coming on every snap and should've had a plan before taking the snap what he was going to do if he didn't have time to execute the called play (or better yet, should've audibled into a different one). I can't keep excusing his failure in this area. Throwing the ball behind and at the feet of Breece on that swing pass. "Old" Zach at his "finest". Yes, it was raining, ball was wet, but that's no excuse. And then there was the scramble backwards 4th and 10 with about 1:26 left that ended with him taking a sack that put the Giants at the 20 yard line. It was a miracle that Gano missed that chip shot. It should've been the nail in the coffin, but wasn't. Still, it was a massive failure to not recognize the situation - throw the damn ball away! Why give them another 10-15 yards? It was certainly case of "Hero Ball" gone wrong, but Zach should know by now that's not going work 99.9 times out of 100, and yet he still hasn't. Inexcusable. And as an aside, I'd like to see the ALL 22 on this, but it seemed to me that Zach had time to at least make a pass from the pocket - there seemed to be a couple "NFL open" guys for him. Even if he didn't complete the pass it would've avoided the terrible sack he took. Moreover, even if it was intercepted, it would've given the Giants the ball farther away from the goal. Again, total lack of situation awareness. And finally, setting aside all the individual plays, the bottom line is that Zach is still coming up short in terms on finding a way to get them into the EZ, and converting 3rd downs. It's not like he's not capable, because obviously he is - look at what he does in a 2 minute drill. So why can't he do it way more often? Yes, he has improved in a lot of areas, and yes. there are mitigating factors like the play calling and formations: why so few PA; roll outs to the left; 3 TE usage in both passing and the run game; etc, but he's got to figure out a way to overcome these and produce. I'm still a believer. I still think he can get better. But he has to do it more quickly.
Yeah I was going to say the same thing. There was a fair amount of “drops” but I think a lot of the throws are so erratic at times that it’s tough to fault the receivers a ton. And erratic is not only the throws themselves but where they think he’s going to throw the ball. Being open in the NFL sometimes is also a matter of a step and a well placed ball. I think that fans forget that sometimes.
After 63 pages of dissecting Zach, the only conclusion I can come up with is that he scares the bejesus out of me every time he drops back.
I guess I figured they go without saying, a great clutch performance, but 24 seconds out of a game (one that included OT at that) aren't enough. As I said, "Not good enough". I will say though, after watching the rapid fire pass plays form Nania that his performance looks better, but still, I posted my first impression after the game while the impression was still fresh for that reason: we can pick apart all the individual plays and find them good, bad, or inconclusive, but it's overall performance and results that have to be weighed. Whatever things he's doing, or not doing, that prevent him from completing 3rd downs, and getting into the EZ, have to be fixed. We've been discussing these issues - and according to Zach, Saleh, and Hackett they have been too - for months, so why are these things still a problem? IDK, and while I don't hold Zach entirely at fault, he has to own a good chunk of it as the QB. As I said, I still believe in him, because of things like those last 24 seconds and some of the other good plays he made yesterday (and the previous games), but he has to start delivering those things most of the time instead of just some of the time.
ZW didn’t have a great game. Credit ZW for hanging in there and did make two clutch passes to tie the game. Someone said he also didn’t lose the game either. I question that since he did have two fumbles. But what matters is how he came back to give us a chance to tie and win. We won ugly and I am happy. I mean we re sounding like a broken record. ZW is not a great QB. Ok yes true. Let’s move on. He is our best QB for the moment, and hopefully he can be effective down the stretch and give the offense a chance to win games whether it 9-6, 37-34, etc.
well he may or may not be the best QB at the moment, though…I think Simian may be better. Not physically better and probably a much lower ceiling, but Trevor Simian may have a higher floor. So it’s debatable. I guess though it’s fine as this is now Zach’s third year and I’m fine with saying ok…not great…but at least let’s get this out of the way. Let him play and let’s see if we can make a final call once and for all on the kid.
Well “Newman” number 65 is the best center at the moment too but the Jets are obviously gonna try to upgrade I think they should do the same at QB
They can upgrade the OL or QB all they want until it happens. Sieminan May be an upgrade, but he s not because Boyle is the #2 QB as of yesterday.
