Undrafted Free Agents

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by blackssmagic, Apr 29, 2023.

  1. JackBower

    JackBower Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2008
    Messages:
    6,978
    Likes Received:
    6,048
    I guess you need to take yourself down a few notches on the pedestal then
     
    KingRoach likes this.
  2. westiedog1

    westiedog1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2014
    Messages:
    2,623
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    I was checking the videos of a few of these guys. Many dropped out of the draft due to injury as did Travis Dye 5'10" 200, an RB who played at USC in 2022 after starting his career at Oregon. His tape was very impressive because he was 1) very good and 2) played in a major conference. He broke his ankle toward the end of the season. Says his ankle is fully healed and attended USC pro day but posted a poor time. Jets are pretty stacked at RB, so that makes his chances of making the roster pretty slim, but if he can get back to his collegiate form, he will be hard to cut.
     
    boozer32 likes this.
  3. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2013
    Messages:
    35,292
    Likes Received:
    28,717
    https://heavy.com/sports/new-york-jets/news-marquis-waters-trey-dean-udfas/

    Jets Land ‘Aggressive’ Safety Hybrid After Financial Guarantees: Report
    By Michael Obermuller

    Following are a few quotes from the article.

    "One area that could potentially use some reinforcements is the safety position, and general manager Joe Douglas did not ignore it while scouring the UDFA pool for more talent. The headliner based on guaranteed money appears to be Texas Tech safety Marquis “Muddy” Waters, who signed with the organization on April 29 according to Texas Tech Football.

    NFL insider Aaron Wilson revealed the financials, noting: “Jets rookie safety Marquis ‘Muddy’ Waters’ rookie deal includes $100,000 guaranteed, with $90,000 of base salary guaranteed and $10,000 signing bonus, per a league source.”

    Although Waters was a safety in college, there’s a chance he converts to linebacker at the NFL level. The Jets website hinted this in their official UDFA tracker, labeling Waters as an LB addition.

    “Aggressive safety who is best defending the run,” Pro Football Network analyst Tony Pauline scouted ahead of the draft. “Shows suddenness and flies around the action. Fires upfield to defend the run or screen plays. Slides off blocks, displays a good head for the ball, and immediately locates the action. Wraps up tackling.”

    Pauline also noted some potential weaknesses, informing that Waters displays an “average ability in coverage.” He’s also “not a rangy safety” and “lacks elite next-level speed.”

    Overall, “Waters is an underrated run-defending safety who is best making plays downhill or in the box,” the long-time insider concluded. “Though his game has limitations, he possesses enough skill to be used in a zone system and comes with a special-teams mentality.”

    And from the same article, information on another UDFA Trey Dean III.

    "The other safety pickup was former Florida Gators starter Trey Dean III.

    NFL Network scouting expert Lance Zierlein projected Dean as a priority free agent ahead of the draft. He reasoned: “Big, long safety with good athleticism and toughness but a lack of top-end speed. He needs to play with better patience early in the rep and must become more aware of his assignment responsibilities. While he lacked speed in his NFL Scouting Combine testing, he did show the ability to run with downfield targets on tape. Dean can cover big tight ends and help support the run in the box but spotty angles to the tackle plague him at times.”

    Zierlein summed up Dean as a prospect, writing that he may “have to compete to make a team as a down safety who can shine on special teams.”

     
  4. SoylentGreen

    SoylentGreen Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2015
    Messages:
    1,416
    Likes Received:
    1,753
  5. BacktoQueens

    BacktoQueens Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2006
    Messages:
    9,089
    Likes Received:
    6,403
    Probably as Zach Wilson has already been declared the unquestioned backup.
    No matter how badly he gets outplayed in camp, he’s apparently already “earned” the spot. So why bother?

    Completely wrong message and I see they still haven’t learned anything from last time they handed Wilson the job.
    Can’t have competition at QB it seems.
     
    tomdeb likes this.
  6. KingRoach

    KingRoach Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2013
    Messages:
    4,283
    Likes Received:
    3,437
    No competition at all… I hear they already named Rodgers the starter not giving the rest of the room a chance to compete. Tsk tsk.
     
  7. JackBower

    JackBower Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2008
    Messages:
    6,978
    Likes Received:
    6,048
    I get the frustration of handing Wilson the #2 QB. He's not even above average in that role.

    It's also the just safe route for the franchise... Not necessarily the best.
     
  8. KingRoach

    KingRoach Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2013
    Messages:
    4,283
    Likes Received:
    3,437
    You’re right. The best would be getting D. Carr to back up AR. It would be horrible roster and cap management but he’d be the best backup in the league.
     
  9. Ralebird

    Ralebird Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2012
    Messages:
    14,039
    Likes Received:
    8,637
    I don't think the QB transactions are over for the year. Once Rodgers and the Jets come to terms on how his contract will be stretched it will be easier to bring in someone with the capacity to actually be a reasonable backup. Of course that might not happen without the pressure of AR getting knocked out for a while; it wouldn't be the first time an all but forgotten quarterback got a phone call midseason.
     
  10. BacktoQueens

    BacktoQueens Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2006
    Messages:
    9,089
    Likes Received:
    6,403
    Just a slight difference between handing a HOF resume the job, versus handing a 2 year failure a job simply because of where he was drafted.
    The latter is a GM perpetuating a mistake. If Rodgers were to miss any time at all, it could sink entire season. Bad decision.
     
  11. JetFanInNE

    JetFanInNE Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2022
    Messages:
    1,143
    Likes Received:
    1,189
  12. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2016
    Messages:
    14,409
    Likes Received:
    21,486
    It's amazing that so many armchair GMs here are convinced that Zach Wilson is a bust, despite the fact that Douglas and the Jets clearly don't think so. Firing MLF, hiring Hackett, getting rid of "Mike F'n White" and his tshirts, not to mention that sports is filled with examples of players who struggled in the beginning and eventually succeeded, some spectacularly. Johnny Unitas was a 9th round pick of the Steelers and was cut before even throwing one pass. Kurt Warner was basically out of football before coming back and becoming a HOF QB.

    I'm by no means saying or guaranteeing that Zach will become a great QB, but he's far from a bust, and still has a lot of potential. Sorry if that doesn't align with your "expert" analysis and that of so many others here, but until Zach is given a legitimate chance in a system that accounts for his strengths and minimizes his weaknesses, and still fails, I'll continue to believe he can be the successor to Rodgers.
     
  13. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2013
    Messages:
    35,292
    Likes Received:
    28,717
    I think this is because so many Jets fans have been disappointed, frustrated and driven nuts over the years by all the failed draft picks, all the busts, all the lousy hires, etc. They've come to expect it, but at the same time, they expect a player to be an immediate star, and if not, he's a "bust." It's made many Jets fans very negative, pessimistic and cynical. It made me that way for several years before I decided that life was too short to be bitter and negative like that, and that I wasn't being realistic. As you pointed out, there have been a lot of late bloomers in the NFL or players who took a different route to NFL success. Zach had a ton of obstacles thrown in his path from being picked by a team with who hadn't been to the playoffs in decades and had only been to the SB once so there was a lot of immediate pressure to be the savior or hero; to a team with an impatient, "damaged" (to quote another poster in another thread) fans who often aren't realistic about what it takes to succeed in the NFL and what players need in order to succeed; to a team with a rookie HC who was a defensive coach, a rookie OC, a rookie QB Coach, a veteran coach who was supposed to oversee his development and that of the OC and QB Coach but who died in a freak accident before he could anything; to a system that didn't fit his skill set and which he didn't have the mechanics to succeed; to a team that had no quality veteran starting QB under whom he could sit, watch, and learn, and had to throw him to the wolves day one while he was adjusting to the speed of the NFL, the ability of NFL defenses to disguise their coverages, while changing his mindset and how he approached playing 180 degrees, and while changing his footwork and basic mechanics. He never had a chance to succeed. The deck was stacked against him. Throw in some immaturity and lost confidence, and anyone who expected him to succeed under these circumstances was not being realistic.
     
    #53 NCJetsfan, May 2, 2023
    Last edited: May 2, 2023
    nycarl and ColoradoContrails like this.
  14. westiedog1

    westiedog1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2014
    Messages:
    2,623
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    I agree with you and Colorado that it's way too early to declare Zach a bust. Every QB talking head analyst I've heard says it takes about 4 years before a QB is comfortable running an offense. However, I'm not much of a believer in casting blame on coaching and so forth. Football is not that complicated. Everyone knows what it takes to be great (we've all seen enough of Brady and Manning by now) or even just good at the position. Everyone who has played a sport knows you have to be able to make adjustments and it's up to you, not the coaches, to make them, or you're toast. What bothered me about Zach this season was that it appeared he made absolutely no progress from year 1 to year 2. If he had only been able to step up and play a bit better in some of those "clunkers" and put the Jets closer to .500...and maybe in the playoffs, because we had the team to do it.....then we are probably not talking about Aaron Rodgers as our QB this year.
     
    egelband and NCJetsfan like this.
  15. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2016
    Messages:
    14,409
    Likes Received:
    21,486
    Are you completely dismissing the fact that he was under center for 5 of their wins and positioned to make a playoff run before injuries to key players screwed that up? He certainly wasn't the biggest reason they won those games, but he sure was a key part of that. How many games did "Mike F'n White" and Flacco win?

    I think he can be resurrected with Hack and Rodgers, and if the OL really is improved. We'll see.
     
  16. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2013
    Messages:
    35,292
    Likes Received:
    28,717
    Football may not be that complicated, but the WCO is. It has a lot of subtle nuances and demands that others schemes do not. IMO it is absolutely not the ideal offense, especially for a rookie QB, and one who has played in a totally different scheme in college. The situation that Zach has been in has been very complicated. You may not be one to cast blame on coaches, and that's fine, but it's the coach's job to put the player in a position in which he can thrive and succeed, and imo
    Saleh, MLF and JD did the worst by Zach that they could possibly do. They set him up to fail and themselves in the process, and I'll bet you that their ego has not let them see that yet, and may never allow them to see how that they screwed up. Instead, it will be all Zach's fault and it will be a matter that he's a head case or just doesn't have the right mental make up if he fails.

    I was disappointed in Zach's lack of maturity, composure, being able to make adjustments, and for not taking responsibility for his horrific play and apologizing to teammates and the fans, but I believe those things are not really possible when one loses confidence and is overwhelmed. He's still a kid who was the #2 pick in the draft, and then was thrust into a situation where despite his HC's and GM's comments to the contrary, was generally expected to be the savior of the franchise and to lead it into the promised land. That's a ton of pressure for a rookie QB. Then his OC was a rookie OC and sullen jerk who did little or nothing to help him develop, who did nothing to adapt the scheme to what Zach does well, and then expected him to change his mindset and his footwork while playing, and often had him doing things contrary to his best interests.
     
    #56 NCJetsfan, May 2, 2023
    Last edited: May 3, 2023
    ColoradoContrails likes this.
  17. westiedog1

    westiedog1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2014
    Messages:
    2,623
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    And I think you are dismissing the fact that he was benched, not once but twice, which wasn't because of external factors, or because of the play of Mike F'n White or Joe Flacco, it was because he was playing poorly. I hope he can be resurrected by Hack and Rodgers but that kind of performance needed doesn't just rub off, he needs to get a chance to play.
     
  18. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2016
    Messages:
    14,409
    Likes Received:
    21,486
    No, I'm not dismissing the fact that he was benched for playing poorly. In fact, I said at the time that he should've been benched in the second half of that Pats game where it was clear he had lost it and was floundering. That's a part of the mishandling by the CS that I referred to.

    What happened with Zach was a virtual repeat of what happened with Darnold, even though the CS had changed. It's like the Jets F.O. had (hopefully past tense now) that belief that all you needed to do with a highly drafted rookie QB is throw them onto the field and stand back and they'd succeed. SMH. When Zach was drafted, and they famously told him on his draft phone call "You don't have to carry the team, we'll carry you", I really thought they understood the mistakes made with Darnold and would make sure not to repeat them, but nope, they did the same thing again! Rookie HC, rookie, OC, rookie QBC, OL in flux, untested offensive weapons, and they threw Zach right into the middle of that and expected him to succeed! And fans did too! If they had done this to Mahomes he would've floundered too.

    Yes, hopefully they've seen the light. It looks that way with the hiring of Hackett and signing of Rodgers, but we'll see.
     
    nycarl, NY Jets68 and NCJetsfan like this.
  19. westiedog1

    westiedog1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2014
    Messages:
    2,623
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    I'm sorry, I don't get the part about them setting him up to fail. They were the ones who rejected Darnold in favor of Wilson. Why would a leadership group tasked with turning around a franchise opt for Wilson unless they thought it was going to make the franchise better? Of course Wilson was expected to be the savior of the Jets. QB's drafted that high are always expected to be the saviors of their franchises, that's why they are taken that high by needy teams. Was not Lawrence expected to be the savior of Jacksonville, was not Fields expected to be the savior of Chicago? It's very hard for me to accept that this leadership group coming in to the Jets did not do all they could to make Wilson a success. Why would they do anything else when their jobs depend on it?
     
  20. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2016
    Messages:
    14,409
    Likes Received:
    21,486
    Even Lawrence who was expected to be the savior of the Jags floundered because they apparently believed like the Jets that all they had to do was throw him out on the field. But it wasn't until they changed HCs and CS that Tlaw began to show improvement.

    Coaching makes a HUGE difference.
     
    nycarl, NCJetsfan and KY Jets Fan like this.

Share This Page