Carr has been in the league 10 years, it’s a very large sample size for an nfl player. Despite all the help they’ve tried to get him, Super Bowl winning coaches, hall of fame recievers, etc., he’s never won anything and he has proven that he is not a franchise qb. Now, look where the jets are. For the first time in a very, very long time, the jets have put together a young and talented team. There are players to build around on both sides of the football. They are on rookie contracts and will be for a few years. When was the last time in jets history you could say this? The first two years of Rex had some great players, but they were vets. When in franchise history have the stars aligned like this where there’s blue chip talent at the major positions (WR, OL, CB, DL) all on rookie deals? I can’t remember a time. All that’s missing is a QB. Instead of using this time to find a franchise QB and really take things to the next level, they would choose Carr, who has proven the opposite of that. You would have Carr for 2-3 years (not winning the Super Bowl) while wasting the rookie deals of these young and talented guys on both sides of the ball. The jets should be doing everything they can to find a franchise QB (Lamar, Rodgers, draft) not looking for guys who are proven losers. To squander this unique opportunity with a guy like Carr is why I say this would be one of the biggest mistakes in their franchise history. This has rarely happened before, and to waste it on a proven loser would be the worst possible thing you could do. Sure, you’d win so more games… probably make the playoffs. But that’s it, no Super Bowl. Would be an incredibly short sighted move by the organization.
Unfortunately JD blew his chance at a big time QB when he drafted Zach at #2. As you noted, with the players we have, we are not going to be picking this high any time soon. Rodgers is by far my preference as well, but what if we can't get him? It seems as if Rodgers told his agent he prefers the Raiders. Not sure sure if it is true or not but the betting odds surely changed quite drastically in the direction of the Raiders this morning. So, what happens if indeed Rodgers wants to be a Raider? If Lamar will not be available, which so far he is not? You speak of finding a FQB as if it is an easy thing to do. Jets had only 1 true FQB in history capable of carrying the team to the SB. If Rodgers and Lamar are out, I don't see a way to find a FQB this season. Draft? I don't see a great prospect that I would trade up for. I am OK if they want to take a swing in the mid/late rounds. We also have Zach, which still has as much of a chance to be great as a mid round pick. It's not like we are passing on some great FQB to get Carr. Pickings are slim I am afraid. Next year things may be different. But now... We haven't made play-offs in 12 years. Carr can help us do that. I also don't see how Carr prevents us from ultimately getting a potential FQB in the draft. If next year we suck and have a good pick, maybe we can draft a QB again with a high pick. Carr also has a trade value and can be moved if we have better options. Like Browns moved Baker. Like Wentz and others got moved too. And Carr always had shitty defenses. I think he can win with better defense. It's worth a shot. I would definitely go for Rodgers first, but given his apparent preference to go to Vegas, it's not a catastrophe if we end up with Carr, considering there are no FQBs available. They don't grow on trees I am afraid.
I'd like to get Rodgers, but if we don't, then what? Jackson could be available but the Ravens could also just keep him. Plus we'd have to give up a ton of draft capital to get him. If Carr ends up being the best veteran available, then why not get him and draft a QB this year and/or next? Given our young talent, tanking for Caleb Williams isn't an option, so Carr doesn't stop us from getting a better long-term option in the draft.
Every time you say yes to something, you have to ask yourself what you are also saying no to. If you do not have a franchise QB, you are not winning the Super Bowl. Wins are nice, playoffs are cool, but If you do not have a guy like mahomes, Allen, burrow, Lamar, Herbert, etc, you do not get to play the real game, which is compete for the Super Bowl. I may be in the minority, but I watched the Bills compete for super bowls with Kelly. Before him they were nowhere close. Then I watched them suck balls for 25 years, cycling through various qbs - the “veteran stop gap,” the free agent signing, the first round prospect, the mid round project, the trade for another teams prospect who has shown at least something in the nfl but not much… I’ve seen it all. Now it’s Allen and you’re back in the game. I can’t express enough how trying to obtain one of those guys should literally be the only thing a franchise is focused on. It should be a singular mission, because without one, you go nowhere. Sure, there are exceptions to the rule every now and then, but if you’re going to focus on trying to build a solid team and be the exception instead of the rule, good luck. I wouldn’t be doing anything except trying to find a franchise qb year after year if I was an owner. That brings me to Carr. By saying yes to Carr, you are definitively saying no to a Super Bowl and no to a franchise qb. You know he isn’t one, I don’t think anyone here would disagree. I wouldn’t play Carr (a known loser) over anyone who is still unknown, like a rookie, or a mike white type, etc. I’d rather there at least be a possibility, no matter how small, that I could find a franchise guy. With Carr, you are foreclosing that. To say “why not get Carr and still draft a guy?” I would say then why not play the guy you drafted? That’s the point right? If you play Carr over the rookie you are just mailing in the season and delaying the inevitable. Every effort should be made to find a franchise qb. I don’t care if you only win 4 games trying when you could have won 10 and made the playoffs with Carr and gone 1 and done. That is short sighted and is a loser mentality because you are prioritizing mediocrity and relevance over accomplishing the ultimate success. If I’m the jets I’m throwing everything I have at obtaining Lamar. There is no mountain i wouldn’t move. My next move is to get Aaron and stil draft a qb. Aaron is different from Carr because he’s actually been a franchise guy in the past so at least there’s hope, and you can combine him with a draft pick because you know he’s only going to play a year. Carr is a proven loser. If I can’t get Lamar or Aaron, I am brining white back and drafting a qb at 13 or trying to trade up for one. The bills were drafting in the 20’s the year they drafted Allen. If they could find a way to get to pick 7 from 15 picks away, the jets can move up from 13. Every moment of every organization without a franchise qb should be spent trying to acquire one, imo. Everything else is a waste of time. It may sound harsh, but it’s the truth.
I agree with your premise, and based on that, until proven without a doubt otherwise, the Jets have to continue to try and develop Zach - as you said: "...I’d rather there at least be a possibility, no matter how small, that I could find a franchise guy." The Bills could've very easily given up on Allen. If they were the Jets and the Jets fans they likely would have. After all, the Jets FO passed on Allen to take Darnold. Perhaps Zach isn't good enough. Perhaps he won't succeed, but the fact that as of now, and based upon their public statements, JD, Saleh, and Woody, have still said they think Zach can be a FQB. We fans have nothing else to go on. We can quote stats and claim what we see is what we get, but the truth is that there's a lot more unseen and unknown by us. If the Jets FO says they think Zach can succeed, then they have to make every effort to help him do that. So far they haven't. They hired an OC who had never held that job before, along with a QBC who was also a rookie. How is that "doing everything we can"? And then they threw him out there Day 1 when they hadn't even had their starting OL play one down together in T.C., and asked him to play in a system that didn't suit his strengths, and required him to be able to make quick reads, something almost no rookie QB is going to be able to do. Again, how is that "doing everything we can"? LaFleur finally admitted they screwed up by playing him and not sitting him for a while. So that's where I have a real problem accepting all the negative assessments of Zach by people here. So now they've hired an experienced OC who has had success with different QBs, and a new OL Coach, so maybe they finally realize that they have to do things differently. I'll believe it when I see it, but I can only hope. In any case, barring a "miracle" as happened with Allen, the Jets will need someone competent and dependable to be QB1 this season. Rodgers is the clear best choice for that. Lamar is a fool's errand. He'll cost a king's ransom to obtain, and another one to retain, and his style is unique to him, so you can kiss goodbye to trying to have any QB be developed behind him. As for the rest, I'm not confident any of them will be able to take them to a SB, let alone win one, but if they allow Zach enough time to get his shit together, he might be able to, or worst case, he proves with finality that he can't. At that point it will all depend on whether the Jets have proven that they can identify FQB talent in the draft and are prepared to do everything right from the beginning to make him succeed. If not, then they'll have to try and trade or sign someone. All I can say is it's maddening that after a half a century a team hasn't figured out how to solve the biggest problem they face.
Josh Allen's second year would have been the best year by a Jets QB since at least 2015, if not going all the way back to the Chad Pennington days. Nobody would be giving up on Zach if he had done something even close to that.
If we sign Carr and draft a rookie, it makes it so we don't have to play the rookie right away, which depending on the rookie could be a good thing. And tons of teams have drafted their franchise QB when they had a good veteran already on the team.
If you're against Carr on the Jets that's a damn good reason to sign him. Bills is your first name, after all.
The harsh reality here is that much like that year Kirk Cousins was available and many of us didn't like the idea because "you'd never win a super bowl with Kirk Cousins" the Jets probably won't end up with either AR or Carr this time around and will be left to make due with leftover scraps. And those people back then were probably right. The Jets wouldn't have won a super bowl if they had signed Cousins. But these last few years would have also been a lot better and more interesting. FQB that bags super bowls is obviously ideal. But when that isn't an option your fortunate to have a guy like Derek Carr. At least you have a chance to make the playoffs, keep things exciting, and maybe get lucky. Look at this season. Brock Purdy/Jimmy G likely would have gotten the 49ers a super bowl if his elbow hadn't been torn off. Its not completely impossible.
Amen to that. Denver knows how that story ends. You end up with the worst offense in the league and everyone gets fired
The whining of a fan base that can't get over the top is very different from the whining of a fan base stuck on the bottom rung of the ladder and getting stepped on every season. Just look at the Vikings fan base and the Jets fan base and you see the difference. Edit: And yes, Cousins would never have gotten us over the top.
I am sorry, but if we can't get Rodgers this year, we are saying no to winning SB this year regardless, baring a miracle. I am not buying that a rookie is taking us to SB this year. I don't see great prospects available in the draft currently that we can realistically get. Carr gives us a better chance at a miracle SB run (Philly with Weintz/Foles, Ravens with Flacco, Denver with washed up Payton, etc...) than anyone else. While ending 12 year play-off drought in the process. And it doesn't preclude us from drafting a young QB who can sit and learn or developing Zach under new OC. Then if say Zach or that rookie QB does develop and plays well in practice to the point coaches feel he turned the corner, I can definitely see him taking over Carr, who can get moved, they are not married to him. Lesser players have gotten moved and actually brought back some compensation. To me, it is Rodgers first, if not, get the best one you can, which IMO is Carr, and then a developmental guy in the backend like a Zach with new OC and/or a dart in the draft mid rounds.
I just don't see how if we end up with Carr, how it hurts us? We all said last year if we had decent QB play we'd be in the playoffs and if we had good QB play we'd be a SB contender. How is Carr not an improvement over what we had? Carr doesn't sound sexy, esp his winter game #s... But he is a huge upgrade over what we had. I think with Carr we are serious SB contender. We looked great with White, how would it be with Carr? Carr is a top tier QB through his career.
Let's not forget the Bills went 17 years without making the playoffs. 17. All of sudden their fans are experts on team building.
Josh Allen's 2nd year was on a team that went 10-6 and had greatly upgraded their OL between his 1st and 2nd years. If Zach had played on that team his 2nd year no one would be talking about what a bust he is.
Rushing touchdowns are touchdowns. He had 9 of them. Plus the 20 passing TD's. 29 touchdowns in Allen's 2nd season Don't worry I added Zach Wilson's 1 rushing touchdown to bring his combined total to a whopping 7 this year
