1. I didn't say that MLF "campaigned publicly" about his dissatisfaction with Wilson. I said he that he shouldn't have made his dissatisfaction public, as in letting others besides his bosses know. And of course there are many ways to express dissatisfaction without even speaking - body language, actions, attitude. I don't know for certain what LaFleur said, or how he communicated his dissatisfaction, but apparently the team knew, and that helped to create the division in the locker room. 2. Telling the HC which players are best suited to play your system is one thing, but if one (or more) of your key players is struggling with it and the answer is "Figure out how to get him to play it or change your system" and you don't, that's a problem. Again, IDK if those exact words were used in discussing Zach's struggles, but from Saleh's and Douglas's year end remarks stating that A) They are keeping Zach and will continue to work with him, and B) The next OC won't be required to use any particular system other than one that works best with the players, it can be assumed that MLF was told to figure out how to make things work with Wilson. 3. Yes, the team always takes precedent over an individual, but that includes ensuring that the most important player on the team is getting the best support you can give him. Yes, I did express my frustration with Zach and with the Jets, and said that maybe the best thing to do was to send him away. At that time there was no indication that the Jets were considering any coaching changes, so we were looking to more of the same. Also it the extent of LaFleur's passive aggressive behavior with Wilson and the QB situtation wasn't known. In light of those two major changes in the situation I've returned to my more or less original stance that it hasn't been proven that Zach can't be the guy they wanted when they drafted him. That stance is further supported by the so far public support by Woody, JD, and Saleh, that they intend to keep Zach and try and get him to reach that level. In any case, people are allowed to change their minds, that's sort of one of the primary reasons for the existence of forums like this - to express opinions and be open to changing them when presented with new evidence of more compelling viewpoints. I hope this clarifies everything for you because that's all I'll say on this to you.
You know it’s not a mutually exclusive thing, right? Zach can suck and so can MLF. There have been red flags with him for 2 seasons.
First, it's not entirely someone else's fault that Zach has struggled. This is part of the "Zach Sucks" meme that keeps getting reiterated without any foundation. I - and to my knowledge no one else who has tried to inject some objectivity into the ZW debate - has ever said that he doesn't bear responsibility for his problems. But it's clear that his struggles were not entirely of his own making, especially in light of finding out that LaFleur apparently never liked how Zach fit into his system almost from the beginning, and was lobbying to replace him for some time. How well do you think that helped a young QB trying to learn how to play in the NFL, and trying to adapt to a system that MLF tacitly admitted didn't suit him? Are you suggesting that all QBs are created equal and are equally able to play all systems? If so, why did Lawrence go from being considered a bust by many Jax fans to hero in one year after they fired the HC and got someone who knows how to build a working offense? And of course there many other examples of QBs struggling in one system and blossoming in another. Do you think it's a coincidence that one of the main points made when they announced they were looking for a new OC that they would not tie them to any particular offensive scheme, coupled with the fact their reiteration that they intend to keep Zach and work to get him to reach his full potential? Doesn't this add up to the Jet's admission of fault in Wilson's development? Again, Zach has struggled, but there are good reasons for that beyond the struggles that every new QB goes through. LaFleur even admitted before he was let go that it was probably a mistake to throw him out there right away. Let me try and put this in another context: What if you were a Gold Medal swimmer in the butterfly, but when you got to the Olympics they told you that you were going to have to swim the backstroke. Do you think you'd be likely to win the Gold Medal? It's a big deal to be asked to change how you've always played, and to do so while your OC continues to insist you stop relying on the skills that you got you drafted #2 overall, and rely on new skills makes things even more difficult. I don't know why this is so hard for Wilson haters to grasp.
You have to understand that some people just aren't as smart as you. They see a very young, raw talented kid, who was told to stop doing the very things that led the Jets to draft him. They saw this kid, who showed some improvement after his injury last season, left to be developed by an inexperienced OC, & QB coach, after experienced coaches either died, or whose services were terminated by the organization. They saw this kid regress before their eyes. They saw other players request trades. They saw a once cohesive, close bunch of players, become divisive, unfocused, prone to mental errors/penalties, & eventually collapse at the end of the season. Etc, etc. So, please have compassion for these lesser beings, who think that with proper coaching, it's possible that 23-yr-old kid might be able to become a functional NFL QB. .
I am afraid this is where we are at. Zach got demoted to 3d string, and since you can't really demote the OC on the same team to work on his craft, MILF got fired. Can't really argue too much with these moves. Btw, take a look at this article by Rivka Brood, who called the predictability of the offense before GW made his comments. She is talking about the receiver room, which is actually pretty good, but was underutilized because of piss poor offensive coordination from MILF and also poor QB play. https://jetsxfactor.com/2023/01/19/do-ny-jets-need-new-wr2/ MILF also sucked in TE utilization, in particularly not using Conklin in LB matchups. Overall, I tend to agree: MILF and Zach both sucked, and maybe we leave the WR top trio in place and replace Berrios with a rookie, while focusing FA resources in other areas.
Jets could use 2x OL + TE + RB in the draft. Maybe 3x OL. The Laken Tomlinson deal was a notable dud as he predictably stepped down at 30 in a new system and is basically uncuttable this season.
I think our "elite" defense needs an overhaul at the LB and S positions. A real Edge guy would be nice too and there are several on the roster already.
I think the defense is not any kind of priority this off-season. The Jets *must* fix the offense or the whole house will come crashing down around them.
Without any foundation??? He misses the most basic throws and can't even make the easy plays that every starting NFL quarterback can make. He's been the worst quarterback in the league for the last 2 years and is going down as a historic bust. How is there no foundation for him sucking? By your logic, there is no foundation that Jamarcus Russell, or Ryan Leaf sucked either. Don't give me the, "He's made good throws so we know he can do it." argument. Even awful quarterbacks can make a play now and again. Some of them can even have a good game here and there. Zach hasn't put a great game together yet in 2 years. Is it the team's fault he misses wide open guys and sails easy passes? Is it the team's fault he throws int's like he did in the 1st new england game? Dude, he was a whiff at #2 overall and a historically bad one at that. That's it. And I'm no hater. I'm a Jet fan and a realist. I was all in on the Zach Wilson train, but jumped off, and I'm looking more and more right for doing so with every snap the kid takes. Last season plus his pre-season debacle was enough for me to see that he's not it. The rest of this season was just more proof. I say all of that knowing that the best thing for the Jets would be him coming back and being great next year, but that won't happen. Those who think it will are delusional.
They may be lesser beings, but that's got nothing to do with it. It's more that they are blinded by their love of Zach Wilson and can't see that he's just not an NFL quarterback. I'm not sure how they could watch the Jags game and see anything different. Richard Sherman said it best when asked if he thought zach had started his last game: “I would hope so,” Sherman said. "If you look back at JaMarcus Russell’s stats, they would be similar to this kid’s stats. And when people talk about some of the biggest busts in the history of the game, it’s starts with those guys. We’re at a time and a climate where everybody’s forgiving, everybody’s like, ‘Oh my, just give him another chance. He’s trying his best. This is a production business. If you don’t produce, we have to find a way. It’s unfair to the defense and these players.” Sherman is one of the only people telling it like it is. Most are worried about hurting the kid's feelings and not being honest. Don't feel bad for Zach. He will make millions for being awful at his job. Be pissed that he's not helping the Jets win and because of him, we have to go out and find another quarterback.
People trying to look for a complex reason as to why he has been so bad and blaming it all on the Jets rather than just seeing the obvious. He was an awful draft pick in a long line of awful draft picks.
I don't think the Jets are counting on Wilson to be anything other than a developmental QB next year. They are going to look to sign someone who will be the starting QB.
No, you're blinded by your stubborn hatred of Zach. I've seen nobody post how much they love Zach. I see people who didn't need Richard Sherman, or anyone, to see how Zach regressed... he's worse now than when he was drafted. I see people pissed at the absolute incompetence of this organization, who invested a #2 pick on a raw kid, then let him flounder in the hands of an inexperienced, clueless CS, after one coach died, & others were terminated. All I see are people who are willing to see the whole picture... his positives, his negatives, his youth, organizational mistakes, and thus, are waiting to see how he responds to actual player development/coaching, before passing judgement. .
The bold is what I'm talking about. There is no qualification around this statement - nor is there any proof that he misses ALL (or even most) of these throws. "Is it the team's fault he misses wide open guys and sails easy passes? Is it the team's fault he throws int's like he did in the 1st new england game?" Where have I said these things weren't Zach's faults? I've consistently acknowledged that he needs to improve in those areas (and others). But that doesn't mean that the scheme he was asked to play in didn't make things more difficult for him. We've covered all of this ad nauseum. If you can't see that forcing a player to play in a system he isn't suited for won't have a big effect on his ability to execute even the most basic aspects, and worse, degrade over time as his confidence is shot because he finds himself not being able to do all these "basic" things that he did easily at BYU, I don't know what to say. I don't know what your credentials or expertise is, and why your opinion should outweigh mine, but in the end we're both just expressing our opinions, which doesn't prove anything one way or the other. OTOH, Douglas, and the rest of the personnel people say they still believe in Wilson's ability to become what they thought he could be when drafted. Maybe they're wrong, they're certainly not infallible, but they have much more information, data, and film to make such judgments than anyone here.
1000 times this! I can’t fathom the fucking excuses still being made…hit a damn 5 yard pass in stride without throwing it 100 MPH dammit. Jesus that’s not a “system” thing it’s a damn basic high school throw. I also call bullshit on the narrative that he showed improvement after his injury last year…sorry but the stats were right in line outside of picks and that’s because he just didn’t throw as much or as far downfield….ugh it’s enough already
Maybe I missed it but didn't the article state that MLF and QBC tried to adjust the scheme to fit ZW after the 1st season? I believe that is what I read, and if it is, it blows away all these posts stating the opposite. In addition, the comments about him be bad in practice speaks volumes,at least to me, because Parcells said you play the way you practce... well looks like ZW did exactly that.
If by this, you mean waiting to see if he can impress the new OC enough to win the backup job in camp, and in the event that the new starter goes down, he can step in and deliver, then sure. But if you mean the Jets should, after everything that's happened the last two years, put him above the rest of the team because he was drafted 2nd overall, then hell no.
