So, what's the point here? Is it to incessantly whine about how bad Zach, MLF, etc are? Any time I see someone argue a fix for a problem (or I do), their (my) posts are generally ignored. And threads continue, going back & forth about problems people see, with crickets about solutions? So... are all you Zach whiners saying the Jets should do what? Sit Zach, in which case, you expect him to magically learn how to deal with pressure, & improve, on the bench/in practice? Or, just give up on Zach, & release/trade him? What? Sure, we all need to vent sometimes, but then what? Yes, there are problems, that's been well-established ad nauseum. What's next? What's YOUR solution? What should the Jets do? For instance, JD has brought in a lot of great talent, but is the team a finished product? It's great the team has exceeded expectations, & may be a head of schedule. If Zach has another bad game, is it better for the future of the team, to sit him, or to leave him in to try to right himself? I get troubled when I see him sitting alone on the bench, after an interception, looking at his iPad. Why isn't his QB coach there, explaining what he needs to do better? Is it any wonder he goes out, in the next series, & does the same thing? Aside from injuries, & talent holes, there seems to be on concerning thread, that ties most of the jets problems together... the coaching. Whether it's inexperience, incompetence, whatever, there seems to be a problem. Zach... if he has a trainer to rehab after an injury, why not a QB trainer in his ears constantly? Get him help! Elijah & Mims, 2 talented WRs, why not get them integrated into the O? Or why stop calling running plays in a close game? It's all well & good, all the cliches, & imploring fans to get into the stadium early, but where's the player development? where are the tweaks, to get players involved? I've mentioned just 3 talented players, who are having problems that go on & on. What's the solution?
Maybe folks are just exhausted to the point of trying to avoid becoming apathetic. None of what folks are bitching about is new and that's the problem. As long as folks bitch about it, they care about it. When the day comes that people just stop saying anything good, bad or otherwise, that's the day someone in the Organization should take notice. Its not just Zach, its the decades of futility or to be recent, the last few years. Tired of Lucy moving the football just like she did this year with Hall and AVT. Folks are tired of making suggestions that never come to fruition. Folks are tired of the eternal rebuild. The Defense is back but the offense is wandering in the desert. Folks are just tired of being tired. Folks want to believe in 2022 Zach. They don't want to be reminded that its possibly 2026 Zach they're asked to believe in.
When Parcells drafted Pennington he pretty much said that there is no way he is leaving the bench as a rookie. I get that the trend is to throw these guys into the deep end of the pool right away but insanity is doing the same thing over again and expecting a different result. Whatever we have seen from Zach each week, it would seem that one week of practice does not seem to fix those problems before the next game is upon us. The idea that benching our starting QB means that we are giving up on him or cutting him seems to be firmly entrenched on this forum, especially among his supporters. After repeatedly trying things their way and letting Zach fail week after week (yes, those four straight wins this year were part of the failure on his part) maybe letting him take his reps in practice, watch film, and continue to develop his craft while someone else runs for his life behind our makeshift offensive line during the next two or three games is worth a shot. If he plays against the Bills and starts talking about seeing ghosts in the press conference after the game just remember "I told you so".
Its almost as if the CS doesn't want to hurt Zach's feelings by holding him to account. Saleh gave Zach carte blanche for the rest of the season. I think that was a mistake on his part as nobody should be untouchable if they screw up. Same for JFM. Saleh might in this instance, be too much of a player's coach. Benching Zach isn't giving up on Zach. Its showing him what's expected in the NFL if you intend to be around for a bit. God Forbid Zach ever plays for a hard line old school coach. I don't think he could handle it..
Fair points but here's the rub: I'm a fan, not a paid consultant or front-office manager. So I'm rightful in just bitching about all the problems. Its what keeps me sane because in my day job, I have to develop solutions. I don't want to do it on a fansite for free.
I think the idea of having a rookie qb sit, was for him to learn from the capable vet that was already there. We haven’t had that since Vinny
Nothing we can do about Zach for now. He has to play, and we have to hope that despite every indication he's a bust, he'll somehow not be a bust. And then if he continues to be bad, we have to replace him next offseason. Regarding Douglas/Saleh, let's see how the rest of the season plays out. If by the end of the season, we still think we're a QB away from being a playoff team, then keep them and get a better QB. If instead we finish something like 7-10 and get blown out a bunch of times down the stretch, don't be deceived by the amount of luck we had in the first half and clean house.
It's a tough situation, because the team is ahead of schedule. Do you forego the possibility of the playoffs, & let Zach make the mistakes (& possibly alienate some teammates)? Do you sit him, & thereby remove the learning experience of playing? That's why, to me, coaching/teaching is the issue with Zach. He needs to play, but needs to be immersed in what it takes to be an NFL QB. So, having someone with him, to point out issues immediately, on the sidelines in real-time. He needs to be taught to be an NFL QB. As an aside, I started the thread more about my issues with the coaching/development of talent. But, yep, it evolves into Zach. So, as far as coaching/player development are people happy with how Zach, Mims, Elijah, etc are being utilized... how the coaches are raising their talented kids?
I disagree about the carte blanche, or the untouchable part. I have my issues with Saleh, but in this instance I think he's doing the right thing. He's recognizing that Zach is impatient, & putting a lot of pressure on himself to do more than he needs to. So, by telling Zach that if you make a mistake, it's not the end of the world, you'll be in on the next series, in some sense he's removing some of the pressure Zach is putting on himself. That can help clear his head for the next series. All benching would do to a player with Zach's mentality, is put more pressure on him, which is the last thing he needs. Something needs to click in Zach's brain, & it aint gonna happen on the bench. If it's gonna click, it's gonna click by playing & repetition. He needs a "whereas I was blind, now I see" moment.
I agree. Definitely needs a mentor. I think the franchise qb is starting to become a thing of the past, as teams throw rookies to the fire, the chances of them developing into a long term successful qb are starting to drop. Compared to how the nfl was 10-20 years ago, anyway.
He doesn't need a mentor - he needs a coach. Where is Calabrese anyway during a game if he's not on the sideline with the guy he's supposed to be helping?
If Zach needs a coach in his second season to teach him how to throw a ball away three rows into the stands, instead of throwing it at a defender, he may not be the QB who we thought he was. The solution is to either be patient with him or give up on what appears to be the team's weakest link at this point. However, if Zach does not show any promise of turning things around by the end of this season, hard to believe he gets another free coupon in 2023.
Believe it or not, the team has a winning record, and could SERIOUSLY vie for a playoff spot. This defense can keep us relevant and in games. Zach, is definitely holding them back with his unacceptable play. If he makes UNACCEPTABLE plays, multiple times during a game , maybe he should be pulled. We won't let a limping wr stay in game, and cost a game. He is costing us games. We are actually built to win NOW. IF the jets go for a new QB, it will be a seasoned vet they will trade for. I don't know what to make of Zach, but I will say he doesn't look like he knows what he's doing most of the time.
Zach has to be mentally tougher than the guy you just described or his stay in the NFL won't be as long as it should be. By telling Zach its ok to screw up, it puts zero pressure on Zach to get his shit straightened out quickly. The best analogy I can come up with is the spoiled little rich kid who always gets his way. Sometimes, Zach needs discipline. What form that takes should depend on how much is needed. I don't see Saleh as that kinda coach though as coddling Zach is his first instinct. The danger here is that Zach starts to screw up too many winnable games and the other 52 guys on the roster start to grumble privately. In this day and age, shit always leaks out. JFM makes the same mistakes costing us games with no accountability whatsoever. Only the usual "we gotta play smarter" cliché which honestly, just sounds like noise now. Zach may be a kid, but he's playing in a grown up football league. Time to stop coddling Zach and remind him he's getting paid millions to play NFLQB, not BYUQB. Nobody is gonna GAF if he's banging his mom's friend or some other stray milf. What's gonna matter is how well or how badly he plays on Sunday. Get him a coach that knows how to mentor. Kurt Warner would be my choice but I still think LeFleur would not be amenable to that and possibly feel threatened by a guy with a ring and a successful resume. Here's a question: If it were Andy Reid or Rivera or some other old school established HC, would they have benched Zach by now given his sporadic play?
I dont know about Rivera but Andy Reid most definitely. Reid once benched his pro bowl QB at halftime of a 10-7 game, on the road against the best defense in the league
I would say no, not yet. He hasn’t been great, but we’ve been winning since he came back. A few more losses, with terrible play from zack, then probably.
I agree about the spoiled little rich kid thing, which was one of my concerns b4 drafting him. But, people have to stop projecting their feelings onto Zach. Zach is who he is, & unless he's a moron, he can probably be fixed. Zach doesn't need discipline, he needs to learn how to discipline himself. Judging by the way he looked after the game, he recognized what he did. And that's how he'll learn. How he responds to his dumb mistakes this coming week, on the field, will tell us more about Zach, than sitting him would. While Zach may be immature, he's not a child. He's a young man. He needs to learn his lessons, & Sunday against the Bills, we'll see if he learned anything from last week. I suspect, he'll be more disciplined. And we'll see if Saleh & MLF learned anything. Will there be more slants & screens? Will Elijah & Mims get more involved in the offense? I don't know if they'll win, but it'll be interesting to see if the coaches, & Zach, learned anything from last week.
