Defense

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by Jojo, Sep 27, 2022.

  1. bicketybam

    bicketybam Well-Known Member

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    Our star players need to be in good enough condition to be out on the field in critical situations.
     
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  2. REVISion

    REVISion Well-Known Member

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    Gonna guess there's a slight difference between being the average weight for a DT vs. being the literal 2nd heaviest player in the NFL and one of the heaviest to ever play the game.
     
  3. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    Both things can be true. In fact, it's been true for this team. Acknowledging that doesn't excuse it, it just puts some perspective on it.

    I do agree that the losing - and the mistakes and dumb play and poor decision making by the coaches - needs to drastically improve right now. Maybe Saleh and JD think fans are being unreasonable and impatient, but they haven't been here as long as we have and endured the same crap. And while the mistakes of Gase and Mccagnan and Idzik and Rex, et. al. are not actually tied to Saleh & Co. directly, they are indirectly in the "legacy of losing".

    I like Saleh, although I wanted an offensive guy like Daboll myself, I believe he can become good given time. But that's the thing: he doesn't have it with this team and fan base. Unfair, but true. He needs to wake up and realize the level of urgency here, and do what it takes to get things going in the right direction NOW. If that means taking over the defensive play calling duties or firing his DC, then that's what he has to do - and I say that reluctantly because a HC should NOT be micromanaging the units and should be more of a CEO. But he has to do something to show that this isn't the SOJs.

    All that said, just because someone is really impatient and frustrated because their pregnant wife can't give birth in less than 9 months doesn't mean it's going to make it happen any sooner.
     
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  4. ouchy

    ouchy Well-Known Member

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    In his first few years Q was always getting gassed pretty fast. He needed a rest like every 3 snaps.
     
  5. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I'm hesitant to call for Saleh to take over playcalling on "D", but something has to change. If not the playcalling, then maybe the overall scheme. Maybe he just doesn't have the right personnel to do what he'd like to do, in which case he needs to come up with a defensive scheme that he can be successful with the players he actually has.
     
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  6. burf

    burf Well-Known Member

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    And Ulbrich went on to say...
    And there be the rub... like all the coaches on the team, he's married to scheme beliefs, rather than what's happening on the field. A good coach will adjust to what's happening in real-time. At a critical moment, a good coach will put his team in the best position to succeed, and thus, utilize his best players. Not this coaching staff.
    The scheme, & their beliefs supersede winning. Hence, the mess we see... continues...
     
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  7. Acad23

    Acad23 Well-Known Member

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    Agree 100%... they should adjust the rotation.
    The DL's performance against the Bengals was surprisingly disappointing... all things considered.

    I thought he changed his diet & workout routine this pre-season... o_O
     
  8. Noam

    Noam Well-Known Member

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    Here is Connor Hughes take on playing Q 63%.





     
  9. bicketybam

    bicketybam Well-Known Member

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    Even more reason not to be gassed all the time. That's upsetting. #noexcuses
     
  10. Wut?

    Wut? Well-Known Member

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    I don’t give a crap about who plays and how much, there are enough talented guys that this line should have more sacks.
     
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  11. LAJet

    LAJet Well-Known Member

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    Finally, facts and common sense versus histeria and taking shit out of contest. Often started by the NY media.
     
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  12. Ralebird

    Ralebird Well-Known Member

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    Hughes is going to have to go at least one level deeper if he wants to tell us when the discussion should be over. I can't imagine that the standards for how many snaps a guy should play is the same for an entire season in every location without consideration for how many weeks the guy has been putting out, much less if it's Miami in September, an indoor stadium in November or Green Bay in January. Let's not even talk about if it's raining or snowing, dusty or muddy.
     
  13. cval

    cval Well-Known Member

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    The defense played well yesterday but against a very bad Steelers offense with a rookie QB playing his first snaps in the NFL. I am not yet sold on this defense and they will have a big test against the Miami offense with or without Tua.
     
  14. LAJet

    LAJet Well-Known Member

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    I think the defense was fired up and stopped the run most of the game, but like you, I'm still not comfortable about our defense against a high passing offense. Not getting to the QB enough and protection in the middle of the field is very weak at best. Our LBs are not fast enough to contain TE and or receivers when in either cover 2 or cover 3 formations. On the other hand, non withstanding our woes with the OL, I though there was a sign of life with Zach under center. I though he played a decent game and finished very strong. We have to figure out a way to open lanes for our running game. We could not run the ball much at all with their D in our backyard on every play. We must depend on a strong running game for Zach to improve. The steelers have a damned good D and a great secondary. with arguably the best safety period. A little off during the first half, but he also extended a number of plays. I know he will improve as the season continues. While a little concerned early on, he held his own. I refuse to accept the over the top comments like he was trash or played like shit the first half. Far from it. It was ugly but it starts in the trenches. I believe we would absolutely, positively gotten creamed with Flacco under center.
     
    #74 LAJet, Oct 3, 2022
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2022
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  15. Noam

    Noam Well-Known Member

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    Some interesting stats from X-Factor

    New York ranks 31st on third down, allowing teams to convert 51.0% of the time.

    1. New York is allowing 4.8 yards per play on first and second down plays. That ranks 11th-best in the NFL. Because of this early-downs success, the Jets are forcing their opponents into an average to-go distance of 7.2 yards on third down, which ranks 10th-best.
    2. Per NFL NextGen Stats, the Jets have allowed the second-lowest target separation on third-down pass attempts at only 2.2 yards.
    3. Additionally, the Jets have created pressure on the second-highest rate of third-down pass plays at 50.0%, per NFL NextGen Stats.
    4.Of the eight teams who have generated a pressure rate above 40% on third down this season, the Jets’ allowed passer rating of 122.6 on third down is the worst by a large margin – 14.4 points ahead of the next team. The other seven teams combined for an average allowed passer rating of 79.1.
    5. New York ranks 31st on third down, allowing teams to convert 51.0% of the time.

    X Factor here argues that Jets have played very good defense but they have been extraordinarily unlucky on 3rd down. Making the case that even when a defense does everything right if an offense executes perfectly there is nothing they can do. Arguing that they have had bad luck to the extreme. Points 1+2+3 should not equal 4 or 5. At least almost never. It is some hope for the future that they appear to be doing everything right to get success.

    https://jetsxfactor.com/2022/10/04/ny-jets-issues-steelers/
     
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  16. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the link. But I disagree that the Jets failures are due to "bad luck". When "bad luck" happens so often, it's not chance, there's actually a problem. What is that problem? I don't know, but just because certain stats don't reveal it doesn't mean there isn't one. I suspect it lies in the misplaced importance put on "pressures". Pressures are not sacks, and yet a lot of people point to them as a key metric of how well a defense is doing. Not to say pressure doesn't indicate a positive effort, but they don't stop a QB from completing a play in some fashion. To put it another way: lack of sacks continues to be an Achilles heel of this defense. Not only do sacks actually stop a play from completion, but even a few of them play on a QB's mind - an extreme example of this is Darnold's "ghosts", but it doesn't have to rise to that level to affect a QB.

    Somehow this defense needs to find a way to increase their sack rate.
     
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  17. Jojo

    Jojo Well-Known Member

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    Ask the coaches why....they cant seem to get ANY messages across. Shit, MOST NFL players will skip workouts if they know they can, if there's no price to pay for it, theyll do it . They have to be CONSTANTLY motivated, to do what they're supposed to do. Coaching, is EVERYTHING.
     
  18. cval

    cval Well-Known Member

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    These are not HS kids they are professional.
     
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  19. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    Most players who make it into pro sports - in any sport - are highly self-motivated. If they're not, they usually don't make it to that level, but those few who do - usually because they possess unique physical talent and didn't ever have to work hard to be better than those around them at the lower levels - don't last long when they're finally surrounded by talent that's equal to or better than they are. I suspect our Mr. Becton is an example of that.

    Most pro coaches don't see their job as one of having to motivate players to be and stay in shape and learn the playbook, etc.. When they find players on their team that require that level of "handholding", they usually freeze them out before eventually getting rid of them.
     
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  20. Jets79

    Jets79 Well-Known Member

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    couldn’t have said it better myself

    I am super sick and tired of hearing about “pressures”

    and I don’t mean to say they are not important or not good…clearly pressure is a good thing.

    but to me, if we’re hyping up “pressures” and pointing to that stat, the real issue is that we are not making it to the QB. To me a super high pressure rate coupled with a low sack rate is an indicator of a problem. It means we have a bunch of pass rushers who are “pretty good” and “almost” get there, but they are not good enough to close the deal. Again, follow the money….there is a reason why guys who get sacks get PAID, and guys who don’t get sacks don’t get those huge contracts.

    not only does a sack stop the play, it also energizes the team and the stadium. There is a trickle down effect.

    again, pressures are good, but how many times do we need to see Mahomes elude it and make a play, or Brady sidestep it and make a play, etc. plus, I think “pressures” is a more subjective stat to call…whereas a sack is clear…either you sack the QB or you don’t. Period.

    so while pressures are good, and hopefully they are a sign that we are getting closer to sacks, until you actually close the deal, it’s a sign that the pass rush is not quite good enough.

    Against the Steelers we actually got a few sacks…three or four I can’t recall exactly, but they make a difference…
     
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