The Ukrainian situation

Discussion in 'BS Forum' started by typeOnegative13NY, Feb 14, 2022.

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  1. joelip

    joelip Well-Known Member

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    You're certainly right that people with insecure or undeveloped finances can suffer the most when national sacrifices are required to maintain our independence and freedom. Personally, I believe those with the most financial resources (i.e., who have benefitted the most from our country) should be made to contribute the lion's share when sacrifices must be made.

    I basically agree with everything else you say, including: a) we should be apprehensive about getting into foreign conflicts; b) we should avoid getting into ill-conceived wars with unclear goals that just result in people being killed; and c) because of such mistakes in the past there is now a profound distrust of government.

    I hope you're right that I'm being dramatic about the current threats we face and the extent of the sacrifices we must be prepared to make. However, I stand firm in my belief that we are facing a clear threat of naked aggression against a fledgling if quite imperfect democratic country. The right thing for us to do is clear also: we must do what we can to stop the aggression and help the country maintain its national sovereignty and self-determination. I believe that if we stand by passively or even support the aggressor, we will encourage many future such aggressions which will only increase our difficulties in thriving in a peaceful and secure world. More importantly, we will have lost who we are as Americans.
     
  2. Sundayjack

    Sundayjack pǝʇɔıppɐ ʎןןɐʇoʇ
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    All this Russian genius and guile, but they still can't build a marketable toaster oven. Hmphf. Funny that.

    2012 - now, wouldn't that be the same year Mitt Romney said Russia was our greatest geopolitical threat, while Barack Obama scoffed, "The 1980's called - they want their foreign policy back"? The crate-trained media, of course, laughed along.

    Vladimir Putin is a character created by interconnected media in need of one, focal enemy to feed the market. That could (and should) be Xi Jinping, if our news and entertainment people weren't all pussies. I'm not saying that Russia doesn't have technology, weaponry and a desire for expansion. I'm just fully confident that we have a firm grasp on who Russia is and who they want to be. I mean, aside from the last few weeks of bumbling we've done here in the U.S.
     
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  3. FJF

    FJF 2018 MVP Joe Namath Award Winner

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    Same divides as always, guns,abortion,taxes, equality, war . It will never change . The only difference is you don’t have to go to a protest or rally to hear about it and yell at the opposition. This is the natural evolution of partly politics sped up by technology
     
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  4. Br4d

    Br4d 2018 Weeb Ewbank Award

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    What if Biden isn't the leader who has lost his grip on reality and is going to push to the inevitable conclusion?

    What if that's Putin?

    The guy is sitting on 25% of all the natural resources on earth - mostly to his east and he's focused on 19th century tribal disputes to the west that even if he wins won't give him a return on the massive investment required to do that.
     
  5. joelip

    joelip Well-Known Member

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    #205 joelip, Feb 23, 2022
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2022
  6. Satan

    Satan Well-Known Member

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    The only logical explanation is that tape does exist
    Or the financial reason
    https://thehill.com/homenews/news/3...american-banks-we-have-all-the-funding-we?amp
     
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  7. Br4d

    Br4d 2018 Weeb Ewbank Award

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  8. BrowningNagle

    BrowningNagle Well-Known Member

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    They’ve been moving in on former Soviet territories for decades now

    I disagree that he’s an extremely calculating individual as well. Putin is not some mastermind, he answers to the oligarchs just like Trump did/does


    It’s actually encouraging in some ways, he might push it too far one of these days, piss off the natives and end up like the oligarchical rulers did in Russia in 1917
     
  9. REVISion

    REVISion Well-Known Member

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    Correct they've been moving in on those territories for a while but for whatever reason, Putin decided to annex Crimea while Obama was president and invade Ukraine while Biden is. Clashes quite a bit with the "Trump was a Russian sockpuppet" thing.

    Putin does not answer to oligarchs, in fact his history implies he strongly dislikes them and they answer to him.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_oligarch
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semibankirschina

    Between 2000 and 2004, Putin apparently engaged in a power struggle with some oligarchs, reaching a "grand bargain" with them. This bargain allowed the oligarchs to maintain their powers, in exchange for their explicit support of – and alignment with – Putin's government.

    The Guardian reported in 2008 that "'oligarchs' from the era of former president Boris Yeltsin have been purged by the Kremlin.

    When Putin took over he purged most of the oligarchs and allowed some to remain but only if they supported him indefinitely.

    This invasion has also been awful for the Russian stock market. Who does that hurt the most? The ultra-rich, who have most of their wealth in assets.

    Putin has never been a businessman. He's a government agent through and through. The oligarchs answer to him, not the other way around.

     
    #209 REVISion, Feb 23, 2022
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2022
  10. BrowningNagle

    BrowningNagle Well-Known Member

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    okay but I think trumps response to this - calling Putin’s move “wonderful” and “genius” - removes doubt that he’s his sock puppet on its own. You disagree?

    Your last statement is completely wrong, the oligarchs run Russia, Putin answers to them. Of course he has some he disagrees with
     
  11. Petrozza

    Petrozza Administrator

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    Putin was put where he is now by a mix of oligarchs, former KGB and organized crime. Those who put him there are either long gone or have become completely irrelevant. I don't believe he answers to anyone these days.
     
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  12. Petrozza

    Petrozza Administrator

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  13. Acad23

    Acad23 Well-Known Member

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  14. Acad23

    Acad23 Well-Known Member

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    The ground war in Ukraine is one thing... the cyber warfare is the real fright.

    Did Zelenskyy give Putin a list of critical infrastructure entities that are off limits to Russian cyberattacks?

    It worked well when Joey B. pulled that rabbit... :confused:
     
  15. REVISion

    REVISion Well-Known Member

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    Regarding my last statement - I provided evidence that Putin exiled any oligarch that opposed him long ago. The ones that remain have only been allowed to do so because they pledged unwavering support. This idea that oligarchs command Putin has been wrong for over 15 years, it's a myth.

    Regarding Trump - we have to remember the kind of person Trump is. All he cares about is winning and power plays. Of course he's going to think Putin's move is a great one (for Putin). He's not saying it's a good thing for the rest of the world, he's saying that for a dictator with dictator-like ambitions it's a good move, which it is.

    That's a lot different than Trump being a Russian puppet or being aligned with Russia over the US.

    I can think someone was a brilliant criminal for example but that doesn't mean I think what they did was morally right in any way.
     
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  16. Acad23

    Acad23 Well-Known Member

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    Great.... another Kremlin apologist.

    I bet you believe in cash bail as well.
     
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  17. Acad23

    Acad23 Well-Known Member

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    Are we past the "minor incursion" threshold? :oops:
     
  18. REVISion

    REVISion Well-Known Member

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    без комментариев.
     
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  19. BrowningNagle

    BrowningNagle Well-Known Member

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    Bullshit. He said we should do that with our southern border. How else can we interpret that than saying it is a good thing? ......Other than him directly saying it was a good, "wonderful" thing of course :)
    --
    Can you imagine that? Any other politician saying we should consider invading Mexico because Russia invaded the Ukraine... and being serious about it too.

    They would be laughed at! like trump should be, and is, by most smart people of the United States anyway. Trailer trash Americans are just a lost cause at this point.
     
  20. typeOnegative13NY

    typeOnegative13NY Well-Known Member

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    I just read what trump said. At the end he said “he would never have done that with him as president , no way”. So I think that’s enough to atleast say he’s not cheering Putin on. So let’s try and be realistic. There is a difference between admiring an adversaries tactic, and supporting it. Although , the way he said it was stupid. And his claim that Russia will certainly be keeping peace, was bullshit. I would hate to be a person in disagreement in that area.
    But, boy is his mouth a rushing river. What ever he’s trying to get across when he talks, can easily be taken the wrong way.
     
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