No two ways about it...Zach laid an egg

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by BudJet, Sep 19, 2021.

  1. Sack exchange

    Sack exchange Well-Known Member

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    He did have a few really poor throws (off target and bad form), which I found to be uncharacteristic for him. The throw to Moore was good, but should have been TD. He was just a little off on that one.


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    #281 Sack exchange, Sep 22, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2021
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  2. semperfigreen

    semperfigreen Well-Known Member

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    I understand both of your viewpoints. It is easy to compare to other rookie QB's and it gives us fans a ray of hope that he won't turn into the next Browning Nagle. I do think that using Peyton Manning and other older Quarterbacks rookie seasons as a comparison is bad because in my opinion they are further along now in reading defenses than they were decades ago. I want him to succeed so badly, and hope that he has some good games along with the expected bad games this year. If he continues to throw 2 or 3 picks a game the rest of the year and struggles to read the coverage then we can all be concerned. I admit that I let my emotions get the best of me during the game, especially seeing Darnold succeed. I am still learning patience, 30 years after watching this tea..
     
  3. legler82

    legler82 Well-Known Member

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    Have you watched every Trevor Lawrence snap? I haven’t. I ask because not all INTs & incompletions are created equal. Comparing just box scores only matters in fantasy football. Zach hasn’t been fooled by exotic looks (yet) like rookies usually do. Maybe he never will & just needs to address the over aggression, poor decisions and occasional bad balls. If that’s it, we are in good shape as that under his control. I don’t know if Trevor Lawrence is dealing with the same things just by looking at his stats.
     
  4. cval

    cval Well-Known Member

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    That is a fair point. I have just watched Talking heads interpretation and box scores. TL is throwing some stupid picks (Highlights) and some amazing throws (Again from Highlights). Every rookie QB struggles with the speed of game it just so much faster than college and open is different. They will learn what they can and cannot get away with and if they do not they will be out of the league. We underestimate the jump. The jump from HS to college is big the jump from college to pros is monumental especially for a QB.

    You get drafted from School start your job get all this stuff thrown at you. There will be struggles. We have no idea how good or bad Zach will be, we have seen glimpses of the good and bad. The question is will he be Jameis Winston of Patrick Mahomes, that only time will tell.
     
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  5. cval

    cval Well-Known Member

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    I was Mfing Zach during the game . That is just the nature of the beast.
     
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  6. legler82

    legler82 Well-Known Member

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    Any concerns about his level of competition prior to the NFL has less to with BYU the school & more to dude with his COVID impacted cupcake schedule in his breakout season. North Alabama, University of Texas San Antonio, Navy and the like didn’t do him any favors in that department.
     
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  7. legler82

    legler82 Well-Known Member

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    I thought the spectrum was somewhere between Rodgers and Mahomes.
     
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  8. REVISion

    REVISion Well-Known Member

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    Lawrence has had the highest number of turnover-worthy throws of any QB so far.
     
  9. legler82

    legler82 Well-Known Member

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    Is that PFF talking or @REVISion from watching games?
     
  10. edray10

    edray10 Well-Known Member

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    Wilson had a terrible game - I don't think there's any way anyone can seriously say he didn't. He threw 2 interceptions in man coverage that were clearly his fault and the other 2 interceptions in zone coverage that were partially his fault. However, he did not have a problem reading defenses - he was generally facing man coverage and knew it. On his man coverage interceptions, everyone was covered, so there was no right receiver and he should have thrown the ball away. On the zone coverage interceptions, its tough to say, but there's an argument that he should not have thrown the pass to Davis on the right sideline (the one that went through his hands and ended up being intercepted) and he should have taken the underneath receiver who was wide open - however the pass to Davis should have been caught and not intercepted, it was just a much more difficult and risky throw than the underneath receiver who was perhaps 10 yards closer, but wide open. The other zone interception, we just don't know - if the receiver had run the correct route, would it have been a big gainer? Either way, I don't think you can say he made a mistake in reading those defenses; nor can we say those passes weren't accurate - the one to Davis on the right sideline hit him right in the hands (it was high, but it had to be to get over the linebacker underneath) and the other interception with the receiver running the wrong route, since we don't know where the receiver was supposed to be, I don't think we can say Wilson was inaccurate with that throw.
     
  11. REVISion

    REVISion Well-Known Member

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    I plead the fifth.
     
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  12. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

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    Lawrence looks like he's struggling with one major concept and that's the cover 2. It's easier for teams to play it when they're ahead and teams routinely will play it against big time quarterbacks (Mahomes, Wilson, etc.) or when the threat of the run has been removed which is the case with Lawrence. For whatever reason, Meyer abandoned the run very quickly despite the fact that neither games were incredibly out of reach early.

    He keeps throwing the ball to the corner and the corner is sagging under it out of the flats or the safety is getting over to it and that's the last ball you want to throw.

    I'm not supporting him or railing on him, just pointing out that for whatever reason he hasn't gotten this in his first two games. I imagine he didn't see the concept all too much (no excuse) because there was always a big run threat for him at Clemson.
     
    #292 Jonathan_Vilma, Sep 22, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2021
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  13. legler82

    legler82 Well-Known Member

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    I believe Darnold struggled with this as a Jet as well.
     
  14. abyzmul

    abyzmul R.J. MacReady, 2018 Funniest Member Award Winner

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    Totally agree.

    Patrick Mahomes is not a person anymore, he's like the Inhumans in the Marvel Comics, a race of superhuman athletes who all have laser arms and their joints spin around in crazy angles and they have xray vision to see through defenders.

    The question definitely is, will Zach be the Jameis Winston of the Mahomes super race of QBs? Or will he be the Aaron Rodgers of the Mahomes?
     
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  15. legler82

    legler82 Well-Known Member

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    Mahomes didn’t become an Inhuman; he was never a mortal. The majority of public just figured what a small group of us had already figured out late.
     
  16. Jedi mind tricks

    Jedi mind tricks Well-Known Member

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    My only hope: don't put the kid on training wheels. We've seen that story again and again here. Work on the mistakes but keep the plan they had for him and let him be himself out there
     
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  17. abyzmul

    abyzmul R.J. MacReady, 2018 Funniest Member Award Winner

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    Mahomes is a biracial angel.
     
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  18. Acad23

    Acad23 Well-Known Member

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    f & r are too close on the keyboarf.
     
  19. Ralebird

    Ralebird Well-Known Member

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    Reading the defense and deciding what to do about it go hand in hand and need to be undertaken simultaneously. As you say, he should have thrown the ball away a couple of times but he did not recognize he couldn't get it where it needed to go. This goes back to the speed of the NFL game and the abilities of NFL players vs. the competition he has faced up until now, both the defenders downfield and those coming at him like a freight train.

    It's a long learning curve which should not be happening sixty minutes a week when there is little to nothing at stake but the Jets have chosen the "baptism by fire" school rather than bringing him along slowly. Every quarterback is going to have passes dropped, so bringing up that routine part of football does nothing to excuse poor play by the passer.
     
  20. edray10

    edray10 Well-Known Member

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    The baptism by fire was absolutely the way to go. The Jets aren't making the playoffs this year, so there's every reason to get the young players (not just QB, but also other young players, like CBs) as much experience as possible. They will make mistakes, but those mistakes are better made this year, when it doesn't matter, than next when, hopefully, it will. With new offensive and defensive systems, even veterans would be making mistakes while learning the systems, so, even with veterans we likely wouldn't be making the playoffs. This is a long-term strategy by the Jets and, in my view, its the right strategy for this team.
     
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