No two ways about it...Zach laid an egg

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by BudJet, Sep 19, 2021.

  1. cval

    cval Well-Known Member

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    We had Knapp until he got run over.
     
  2. cval

    cval Well-Known Member

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    Why are you actively rooting for Zach to fail?
     
  3. Falco21

    Falco21 Well-Known Member

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    Just ignore him dude.

    He fell off the deep end a while ago
     
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  4. edray10

    edray10 Well-Known Member

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    I just watched a tape analysis of Zach's 4 interception performance - . It showed the issues on the various interceptions. 2 of them were against man coverage and 2 were against zone. The zone coverage interceptions were the one that went through Corey Davis' hands and the deep interception that went straight to a safety where the receiver ran the wrong route (these it could be argued were not Zach's fault - Davis should have caught the ball and the receiver should have run the correct route). In both of the man coverage interceptions, they were passes thrown to Davis where he was single covered by a very good CB. Davis wasn't open but Zach is used to throwing his receivers open and that might work in college but it does not work against a very good CB in the NFL (this is why QBs wouldn't even throw to Revis covered receivers), at least not where you don't have a top line #1 receiver and Davis isn't one (at least not yet). There was no one open on either of the man covered plays that led to interceptions. The right call in both of those plays would have been to just throw the ball away, but Zach tried to make something out of nothing and the Jets paid for it.

    This was not a defensive scheme were Bellicheck was running all these weird zones and confused the QB - Zach was not seeing ghosts or anything of that sort. He made all the correct reads, he just relied on Davis to win one on one matchups against a very good CB and Davis couldn't do it (and rarely got separation). The patriots played most of the game in man coverage and the receivers just weren't getting open on many of these plays.

    This was also not a well called game by the OC - there are certain route combinations that are designed to beat man coverage, typically including picks, rubs and crossing patterns that the Jets simply didn't use more than a few times. It appears that the Jets were expecting Bellicheck to use a lot of strange zone coverages to try to confuse Zach and he didn't do it. Because of that the Jets did not appear to have have very many plays with the types of routes designed to beat man coverage in their play book for that day. With a veteran QB and a veteran offense used to the offensive scheme, they likely could have changed on the fly, but with a rookie QB in his 2nd game and a team playing its 2nd game in a new offence, they were limited to what they practiced during the week. This was a major failure of the coaching staff's preparation for this game.

    None of this is to say that Zach's not at fault for at least 2 of the interceptions because he clearly was and should have thrown the ball away, but this is the type of game rookies have and Zach is not exception. Some things that work in college simply do not work in the NFL, at least not against a very good CB. On the positive side, Zach was not confused and did not generally make the wrong reads (e.g., throw into double and triple coverage, etc.). On the negative side, he appeared to become somewhat gun shy as the game progressed and threw to a few safer underneath reads than take the long shots to open receivers further down the field.

    I think you have to put this game down to a failure of the jets coaching staff in preparation for this game and a rookie QB being overly aggressive by throwing to his covered #1 receiver and expecting the receiving to win the one on one matchup even when he doesn't have separation.
     
  5. legler82

    legler82 Well-Known Member

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  6. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    I wonder if that affected his play on Sunday?
     
  7. Acad23

    Acad23 Well-Known Member

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    Probably injured his dick on that tackle he made on Devin McCourty... :confused:
     
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  8. Ralebird

    Ralebird Well-Known Member

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    Just those two? Really? There is no need to whitewash Wilson's day by not facing facts.

    There were at least two other problems that were major factors in Wilson's play. He had a problem reading defenses and finding the right receiver and his passes were not accurate. The two things you mention may have been contributing factors but the guy who made poor choices and poor execution must be held responsible as well. His ability to transition to the speed and complexity of NFL game from the competition he faced at BYU has been a legitimate concern all along and is a work in progress. It may be a bigger concern that a guy who has been known for his accuracy regressed, but it's only one game.
     
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  9. cval

    cval Well-Known Member

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    I really did not see any accuracy issue, a force the ball issue yes but not accuracy. . I am so sick of the BYU BS, every rookie QB has issue adjusting to the speed and complexity of the NFL. Just look no further than Trevor Lawrence.
     
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  10. Ralebird

    Ralebird Well-Known Member

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    I don't care about Trevor Lawrence; he plays elsewhere. My interest in this thread is what Zach Wilson is doing and comparing him to anyone not on the Jets roster will do nothing to make the Jets a better football team. I saw a bunch of high and off target passes, maybe caused by bad footwork that had not been seen much before.

    Being sick of what you call the "BYU BS" does not mean that there is no difference between the competition he faced and the competition faced by guys who played at the higher levels of the SEC and Big Ten, for instance. It has been a legitimate concern and will be until the time that Wilson's ability to deal with NFL speed, game planning and talent improves.
     
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  11. cval

    cval Well-Known Member

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    You do not care about TL yet the best prospect in decades is struggling. Rookies struggle it has nothing to do with him going to BYU. Show me the clips with the accuracy issues I must have missed them.
     
  12. tomdeb

    tomdeb Well-Known Member

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    The first INT was his first pass and second offensive play. He threw into triple coverage, and the three Pats DBs batted the ball like a volleyball until one of them grabbed it. The second INT/pass was a roll out, and he had Moore WIDE OPEN 5-7 yards right in front of him-- yet he threw it 20--25 yards downfield to Davis who was in double coverage. The third INT was a sideline throw to Moore, who was completely covered. The DB picked an underthrown ball. It was a poor decision by Zach because WR Moore was pinned on the sideline and is not tall enough to grab a higher thrown ball, EVEN IF Wilson had put it there. The fourth was a long pass to...God only knows--it sailed right into the DBs. hands. I stand by it--poor judgment and poor throws. I remember reading that Namath as a young QB had the same problem--he thought he could connect with anyone anywhere on the field. I remember Favre's first season with the Pack (he was on Atlanta as a rookie)--Favre was running towards the sideline and threw a blind pass down the field that was easily picked--Dan Dierdorf blasted him for it on MNF. Peyton Manning had I think 27 INTs as a rookie. I am not saying Wilson can't get better. But blaming the receivers or the OC right now (as some on this board are doing) is IMO kidding themselves. Wilson needs to be less impressed with himself and his arm, and take what the D gives him. If nobody's open throw it away. As I said, so far he looks like another Browning Nagle.
     
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  13. Ralebird

    Ralebird Well-Known Member

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    Who is this "best prospect in decades" you talk about? How did you take that leap so early if you're talking about Wilson? Guys prove they are good prospects on the playing field, not on message boards. Why do you care about Lawrence is a better question. Is he going to help the Jets win anything? Wilson lives or dies on his own performance and that is what needs to be improved regardless of what 31 other quarterbacks in the league are doing.

    If you missed the game, or just blinked when those incompletes and interceptions occurred I'm sure you can find the clips yourself.
     
  14. legler82

    legler82 Well-Known Member

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    There were some accuracy issues especially considering his pedigree. This is Zach Wilson not rookie Josh Allen. There’s a certain level of accuracy we expect. Forcing balls like you said and bad decisions/balls have nothing to do with adjusting to the speed. I don’t think he’s struggling with the speed of the game.
     
  15. legler82

    legler82 Well-Known Member

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    If both Lawrence and Wilson flops, it doesn’t help the Jets. Not sure why his name keeps being brought up.
     
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  16. cval

    cval Well-Known Member

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    Wow, you are good at diverting. Trevor Lawrence was talked about as the best QB prospect in decades and is struggling with the speed of the game and complexity, as is Justin Fields as is check down Mac Jones. It is a rookie thing not a Zach going to BYU thing.

    I do not care how they do, Zach is having rookie growing pains and it has nothing to do where he went to college as proven by the other QB's struggling as well. I can't say any clearer, you are either dense or refuse to acknowledge my point.
     
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  17. cval

    cval Well-Known Member

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    No it doesn't. But if he flops it will not be because he went BYU.
     
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  18. Sack exchange

    Sack exchange Well-Known Member

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    I think his biggest issue was throwing 2 ints, trying to force to Davis, Then he was pressing. He regressed from that point forward. Form and accuracy went down the toilet. He was trying to deal with the adversity and did not handle well. As I said earlier, he did not have to deal with that at BYU. They had good team, still do, so he did not deal with a lot of pressure, not much pass rush, wr more open, etc. I agree, it is less speed of game and more about pressing and trying too hard to make a play. Darnold was also guilty of same thing,


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  19. cval

    cval Well-Known Member

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    His pedigree is making those "wow" throws and he made at least two of them in this game. He will hopefully calm down but like I said I really did not see the accuracy issues.
     
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  20. Ralebird

    Ralebird Well-Known Member

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    Look, I'll say it one more time - I don't care about Lawrence unless he is playing against the Jets. I also don't care about Fields, Jones or any other guy the Jets play against. The competition between all those guys ended on draft day as far as the Jets are concerned. To keep going back to anyone other than Wilson diverts the conversation away from the topic here which is Wilson's performance, nothing else.

    You seem think that the experience Wilson has with the competition he faced has nothing to do with his current abilities, I disagree.
     

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