Worst Jets draft pick since 2006

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by JetFan20, Jul 8, 2021.

  1. ukjetsfan

    ukjetsfan Well-Known Member

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    No arguments on that, but the whole 'Suck for Sam' thing indicated that many people thought Darnold was the best prospect. Obviously it turns out they were wrong, but there was no 'Play like you're in a hay field for Mayfield' movement.

    It would be interesting to see how many front offices would've picked Darnold over Mayfield. I'm guessing it would have been most of them.
     
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  2. KingRoach

    KingRoach Well-Known Member

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    Rofl
     
  3. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    You may be right that most front offices would've picked Darnold over Mayfield. It wouldn't surprise me for several reasons. One, NFL teams can get so hung up on measurables. Sam has prototypical QB size that most teams want or demand. Baker does not. Oklahoma was loaded with NFL players. USC was not. Some may have discredited Baker due to the talent around him and elevated Sam because of the lack of talent around him at USC. NFL teams can also be surprisingly blind and stupid at times, especially regarding the QB position. A point in case is so many teams passing on Mahomes and Watson. With so many teams lacking a great QB, why would they pass on those two when they've reached for others who didn't have a half the talent those two do? This is where conservatism/traditionalism bites NFL teams in the ass. In that draft most teams were still thinking traditional pocket QB. Mahomes, Watson, Wilson in Seattle, Kyler Murray, Jackson with the Ravens, and others have helped change that perspective. The lack of enough quality QBs makes teams desperate. They take chances on QBs that they wouldn't take on players at other positions. Their egos get involved and common sense goes out the window. In addition in this specific situation, some teams were probably turned off by Mayfield's personality.

    I admit that the way Sam played his freshman year made him look like he was going to become a great QB. The way he played his sophomore season however, should have caused everyone to see red flags and red flashing lights. They saw his potential, but ignored his background, and didn't project how his lack of experience playing QB, his lousy footwork, and propensity to turn the ball over would turn out in the NFL. I'm certain that they thought that he would fix those issues, but he clearly hasn't. A huge chunk of that blame lies with Mac, Bowles and Gase, but a huge chunk also lies with Sam and possibly his QB Coach, Jordan Palmer. Either Palmer hasn't told Sam what he needs to hear or Sam has ignored him, refused to do what he suggested. The only evidence we have with that regard is that he tried to get Sam to change his throwing motion, and Sam refused, saying that he was comfortable with how he threw the ball and didn't want to change. That would seem to indicate that Sam is the problem, rather than Palmer. Palmer is a respected QB Coach. I would be shocked if he hasn't tried to fix Sam's footwork, and worked with him on film review to read Ds.

    Sam did conquer his fumbling problem, either on his own or with Palmer's help, so it's mysterious why he can't/won't fix his footwork. Does he feel comfortable with that too, and is therefore afraid to change it as it would undermine his confidence? If so, then he isn't that confident an individual, and I think this is a reason why a number of QBs fail in the NFL. They have made it to the NFL throwing or playing in a certain way. Their confidence is tied up in that. A QB Coach, OC or HC tries to get them to change something and they cannot or will not and they stick "with what got them there." "What got them there" may have been good enough for HS and college, but not the NFL. Maybe, just maybe, tweaking something, making a change or two, might make them even better. Then again, maybe they're just not that talented or don't have the right mindset to play in the NFL even if they would/could change their mechanics or mental approach.
     
    #43 NCJetsfan, Jul 10, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2021
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  4. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    Some players figure it out on their own. As I said, Mahomes probably wouldn't be as good as he is without Reid, but I think he would have been plenty good with the Jets in spite of who their CS was. We don't know. Maybe they said the right things to Sam and he just either couldn't or wouldn't do what they suggested. No one is totally bad. Mahomes is mature enough and having grown up with a father that was a professional baseball player, I'm certain that Mahomes would have sought out a QB Coach like Beck or Palmer and would have figured most of it out. It probably would have taken him another year or two, and may still not be as good as with Reid, but I think his talent/ability would have evolved and won the day.

    Saying that a player is a "bust" means that they don't find success elsewhere.
     
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  5. KingRoach

    KingRoach Well-Known Member

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    I did specify “Jets bust” and while I see your point, my point was the Jets CS and GM was so bad in 2017 they would have turned a goat into a lamb. Maybe it was an exaggeration, maybe not. Thank god we’ll never know.
     
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  6. Ralebird

    Ralebird Well-Known Member

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    Except that there is no evidence that any such thing happened. The story has been repeated here for years but no one has ever been able to substantiate the claim; other stories have said that Darnold was willing to do whatever was suggested to him to better his performance - which story is accurate? In addition, it has been the job of the New York Jets to coach their players, not some part time free lancer like Palmer. Jeremy Bates, Adam Gase and maybe Dowell Loggains are the people who were charged with the responsibility of coaching the quarterbacks of the team and all failed in epic proportions with every candidate even though all were touted as offensive geniuses and quarterback whisperers.

    I don't believe that any NFL braintrust thought that Darnold or any other rookie could fix his own game but many, maybe most, believed they could fix it with the right coaching. It's quite a stretch to think a single NFL team ignored Darnold's background and failed to recognize the flaws in his game. There's little reason to think that even the Jets did. We shall see how it works for him going forward in Carolina.
     
  7. Dierking

    Dierking Well-Known Member

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    goddamn you to hell
     
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  8. wewantsapp

    wewantsapp Well-Known Member

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    I'd fall in line w/this philosophy. My opinion of horrible/worst/awful draft picks lies w/the GM & the scouting department. The player himself has no control where he is drafted, - the front office determines that.

    Under that premise;
    Christian Hackenberg - arguably 1 of the most "huh?" draft picks in NFL history. It seemed from day 1 of camp there was a problem. Its as if no one did any homework or properly scouted the guy. If someone did watch him throw at Penn St. during a workout, - they should be finding some other line of work, - because they are no scout.
    Quinton Coples - numerous red flags about a lazy attitude & no heart/drive whatsoever. Some excuses were given about constant changing coaching staffs at UNC while he was there, - but in the end, the numerous red flags were true. I think Rex Ryan was barred from the war room after Coples.
    Jachai Polite - probably the one that helped get Maccagnan fired. I still consider a 3rd round draft pick to be a premium pick. What makes it worse is that 2019 was Maccagnan's 5th draft as a GM. Should have known by then to stay away from guys like this.
    Stephen Hill - bad bad draft pick based entirely/solely on a great combine.
    Darron Lee - head scratcher from the day we selected him. Wasn't remotely fit from the start for the 3-4 ILB position.
    Calvin Pryor - John Idzik / Rex Ryan mistake when Ha-Ha Clinton Dix was still on the board.

    Not under the premise;
    Sam Darnold doesnt qualify --- the JETS ruined him.
    Vernon Gholston - this guy was a bust but he was also the right pick at the time. He was a monster in college. For reasons that I will never know nor understand - he literally just quit football altogether once he got the rookie contract signed.
    Jace Amaro --- another Gholston like pick (i.e. the right pick at the time). Great TE in college catching everything. Another one w/a shitty attitude/personality. I might fault the coaching staff on this one. They soured on him. Still, - he probably should have fought his way out of the doghouse.
     
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  9. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    I agree with your "Under that premise" picks, but not your "Not under the premise" picks.

    Sam Darnold TOTALLY qualifies for "Under that premise" imo. He basically had one good season in college, his freshman season, capped with a great bowl victory. His second season at USC he regressed and was pretty bad (Perhaps after opposing coaches had film on him and knew how to gameplan against him). He had awful footwork, accuracy issues related to his footwork, questionable decision making, couldn't read Ds, and a TO problem (both fumbles and interceptions). He had only started playing football in high school and for the first 1 1/2 of those years, he played LB. He switched to QB full time his senior year in HS, so he had little experience playing QB (like Gholston did playing football, he also didn't start playing football until HS), and a number of issues. Yes, he had prototypical size, was mobile, had a strong arm, could extend plays/create, had a lot of potential, and was a great kid, This isn't a QB you trade up for and start immediately, however. Sam should have sat for at least a year, maybe two. Perhaps then he could have reached his potential with good coaching. The Jets definitely didn't do him any favors, and I understand why you would say the Jets ruined him, since they started him immediately, rather than having him sit. The thing is he has had 3 years to fix his footwork issues, his inability to read Ds, his vision of the field, and his accuracy, and has either not tried or failed to fix any of those things. He has continued to work with his respected QB Coach Jordan Palmer each offseason. So what have they been working on? I cannot believe that Palmer wouldn't have addressed Sam's footwork since it's glaringly obvious and causes poor accuracy and interceptions. Similarly, I cannot believe that Palmer wouldn't have worked with Sam on seeing the field and reading Ds since that is a huge weakness in his game. Sam is reported to be a hard worker, so if he hasn't fixed these things (he was able to fix his fumbling problem before he even started for the Jets), then imo he must not be capable of fixing them, and isn't as talented as many fans, media, and as Mac thought. I think his failure is as much his fault as it is the Jets. I see no reason why he could not have fixed his footwork working with Jordan, and at least greatly improved his ability to see the field and read Ds. There's also the issue of his decision making which has continued to plague him. It contributes to his accuracy and TO issues. How is it that a QB who has been in the NFL for 3 years still throws into double and triple coverage, and doesn't know when to throw the ball away? I submit to you that Sam's football IQ isn't very high, and maybe his overall IQ is not great, either, and he just doesn't have the right mental makeup to succeed in the NFL, so it wouldn't have mattered what the Jets would have done. He might have been marginally better, but still not good enough.

    Vernon Gholston didn't begin playing football until HS, so didn't have a ton of experience. He had some huge games at OSU against weaker opponents which skewed the stats and built his reputation. He disappeared often in big games. In the National Championship Game his last year, he made zero plays/impact. That should have sent a clear warning. Early on, I was enthralled with him. The Jets desperately needed a pass rusher. I can't understand why Mangini wanted to draft him, but by the time of the draft, I was deadset against drafting him even though I had been screaming for the Jets to draft a pass rusher even before they added Jon Abraham. He didn't love football either. It was just a way to pay for college and make some money to him. That should have been apparent in interviews with him and coaches. The Jets never should have taken Gholston, regardless of how desperate their need.

    Jace Amaro should have never been drafted by the Jets. He was totally a product of the scheme he played in. He was stiff and not athletic at all. Over 90% of his receptions were within 2-3 yards of the LOS. He had little experience running routes, and I think I recall that he wasn't much of a blocker, either. IMO drafting him was purely a clear case that demonstrated that Mac didn't know how to evaluate talent. He looked at the rankings of the scouts and media for BPA, did not consider scheme fit at all, and made picks. I KNEW Amaro was going to be a bust and absolutely HATED that pick. I screamed at the TV when it was made.
     
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  10. Jerryjeudy

    Jerryjeudy Active Member

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    Stephen Hill

    2nd round pick only played for 2 seasons before being cut
     
  11. abyzmul

    abyzmul R.J. MacReady, 2018 Funniest Member Award Winner

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    I don't think it had anything to do with a plan, he was probably afraid to look like a buffoon for admitting Hack was a mistake. Little did he know.
     
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  12. jetophile

    jetophile Bruce Coslet's Daughter

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    I didn't see Stephen Hill on there.

    EDIT: Damn it, someone else just beat me. I guess I'll add Justin Miller.
     
  13. Snatch Catch

    Snatch Catch Well-Known Member

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    Jachai Polite

    68th overall pick only played for...actually never made a roster before being cut.
     
  14. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    At least Miller was excellent on STs for a few years.
     
  15. tomdeb

    tomdeb Well-Known Member

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    You hit the nail on the head when you mentioned 2014--Can you think of 5 worse consecutive high picks ever by the jets than Pryor, Amaro, McDuck, Saunders, and Evans? NFL.com that year had McDougle pegged as Mr. Irrelevant (last pick of the last round) and Idzik takes him near the middle of round three (????).
     
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  16. tomdeb

    tomdeb Well-Known Member

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    LOL! Kyle Wilson--I forget about him. Ist round bust and probably the only jet ever called for defensive holding on a 3rd and 29 play on a short pass pattern--Automatic first down for the Ravens! :eek: No talent and no brains.
     
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  17. Ptflea2

    Ptflea2 Well-Known Member

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    Ugh! I don't remember that specific play, but I do remember one play were he got burned by 3 or 4 steps, 25 - 30 yard pass in the air slightly overthrown, but the receiver semi dove for it and fumbled it as he hit the ground. Wilson lands on the guy (like he tackled him) got up and did the "incomplete" sign with his arms. Wilson had literally no impact on that pass being incomplete but acted like it was all him. I already disliked the dude. That play, however, cemented my all time hatred for him.
     
    #57 Ptflea2, Jul 13, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2021
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  18. Jets81

    Jets81 Well-Known Member

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    I can’t recall an instance where he actually turned around and looked for the ball when it was thrown in his direction.
     
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