https://www.si.com/nfl/jets/news/ne...-trading-up-to-draft-guard-alijah-vera-tucker From this article on AVT: "In 849 combined snaps between tackle and guard, Vera-Tucker allowed just two sacks. The Oakland native has the highest pass-blocking grade over the last two years in college football. "
https://theathletic.com/2560642/202...ore-nfl-draft-observations/?source=dailyemail Quote from the above-referenced article by Connor Hughes "Dominance on the left side of the line The Alijah Vera-Tucker selection isn’t being talked about positively enough. The fact that people criticized it is mind-blowing. You’re talking about the top offensive guard in the draft, a player who will now line up next to Mekhi Becton, who showed All-Pro potential next year. The two of them together have the chance to form a game-changing left side of the offensive line. Think about if the Cowboys had Tyron Smith and Zac Martin lined up next to each other. Don’t trust me? Here’s what Dane Brugler had to say in his final big board, which ranked Vera-Tucker as the No. 13 prospect: “Although his anchor can improve, Vera-Tucker is coordinated in pass protection and his punch connects with flat feet and natural force to win early and reset throughout the rep. He creates a surge in the run game and competes with the play personality required for the pro level. Overall, Vera-Tucker does an outstanding job centering his blocks and sustaining due to his balanced feet, strong hands and quick processing. He projects as an NFL starting guard with a Pro Bowl ceiling and tackle versatility.” And NFL.com: “Ascending wide-body with powerful hands and above-average core strength, allowing him to play with good balance and control the action around him. He’s not a forklift-style drive blocker, but he does have the frame and natural strength to improve in that area if he can play with a little better pad level. Vera-Tucker is adept at catching and tagging moving targets in space. His effective play at left tackle in 2020 might create some buzz about him making that a permanent position if teams are OK with his lack of prototype length. He’s a plus in pass pro and solid as a run blocker.” But did they overpay? This was the original thought. It was stunning to see the pick-crazed Douglas give up both of his third-rounders. It meant, on Day 2, he’d have just one selection. After reviewing the trade value chart, though, it really wasn’t that big of a difference. Nos. 23, 66 and 86 hold a point value of 1,180. Nos. 14 and 143 hold a value of 1,135. So the Jets overpaid by 45 points. That’s it. A 45-point difference is just fine if you’re getting a guy with Pro Bowl potential who can start on your offensive line for the next decade. Look at the impact Quenton Nelson has had with the Colts and Martin has had with the Cowboys. If the Jets get even half of that, 45 points are worth it."
We basically used Seattle's 1st rounder and Seattle's 3d rounder (plus exchange of our own 3d for a 4th) to get AVT on a rookie deal. That alone is probably a very good price for Jamal, who was 3 years into his rookie contract and needs a large extension. And we still have a 1st rounder from them in addition to AVT. I don't think we overpaid to begin with, but when you look at it even in a larger context, we are well ahead. The only way we overpaid is if he actually sucks in NFL, which I don't think will be the case.
If he wants to make the case that AVT is so good that the price was worth it, then fine. But citing the dumbass Jimmy Johnson trade chart just makes him look clueless.
we used half the adams trade plus slid back from the 3rd to the 4th and if reports are correct we got the player we would have taken in the 3rd anyway (micheal carter) so really we just gave up 2 of the 3 picks we got for adams
that chart is still used by all NFL GMs pretty much to a T. you can call the chart dumb all you want, but it's what NFL teams use
The JJ trade chart may not be accurate, but it a commonly used tool that has been around a long time and is well understood by much of NFL fandom. It is the most sensible baseline to use when talking to fans across team fanbases and across generations-- everyone knows what it means. I mean, English is a stupid fucking language, full of broken ass rules and a cobbled-together vocabulary but it's the one we use to communicate. How many people would know what the hell he was talking about if he had used the Harvard trade chart? or the Rich Hill chart? Or the Fitzgerald-Spielburger chart? Perhaps you would prefer if he explained using quantum field theory?
The problem is the JJ chart overrates early picks relative to late ones, so the idea that the Jets only slightly overpaid in terms of draft value is wrong. The Jets significantly overpaid. The author would have been better off saying nothing than using that chart and coming to the wrong conclusion.
how did we significantly overpay by your logic? according to the chart we overpaid by a mid 4th round pick. but overpaying a little is common when moving up. how do you think we overpaid too much?
I agree the Jets overpaid a little. I think most here would. The question is whether or not they were justified in overpaying. Jimmy Johnson chart (as cited): Jets overpaid by the value of a late 4th round pick. Rich Hill chart: Trade is exactly even at 370:370 Harvard chart: Jets overpaid by the value of a high 3rd round pick. F/S chart: Jets overpaid by the value of a mid-high 3rd round pick. None of these are perfect, but they are the tools available to most of us. Okay, look at the overall spread from the most common charts-- BEST CASE, the Jets broke even. WORST CASE, the Jets gave up a third rounder they shouldn't have. The truth is almost somewhere in between those options right now. In time the truth will play out not just in how well our new LG plays, but in how well our new QB develops with a solid left side. That's the value added here.
If he still on the line in 10 years time not a single person will give a monkeys about a mid to low thrid round pick
The charts matter little since it was an extra 1st rounder and an extra 3rd rounder, as they both came in the Adams deal. Douglas was playing with house money, unlike the Chicago Bears who had to (ouch) give up next year's 1st, to move up the same exact number of spots. But the Bears are geniuses for that -- Adams deal so far (essentially .. as playing out): Jets send: Jamal Adams Jets get: Alijah Vera-Tucker 2022 1st round pick
I think the Jets did overpay for AVT. Third round picks historically have a pretty good shot at becoming starters. Not as good a shot as first round picks but a pretty good shot. The blow is softened by the Jets targeting the right position with the overpay but it was still an overpay. There's a decent shot the Jets could've landed two starters at OL had they kept the 23 and their third round picks. If AVT turns out to be as good as advertised no one will care but it was a semi-foolish trade up.
what if AVT is the next quinton nelson and the 3rd rounder was a bust? FWIW they players they took with our 2 3rd rounders were kellen mond and chazz surratt a QB and a LBer neither of which we would have chosen. rumor was we wanted carter in the 3rd and got him in the 4th anyway. then the extra 4th we got back turned into jason pinnock. so really its AVT and Pinnock vs Darrisaw, mond, and surratt we won't know how it works out for a few years
If you're looking at the value of a good LG, I agree, the Jets overpaid. If you're looking at the value of having your rookie #2 overall QB not worry about the left side of his O-line for the first five years of his career, I think they got a hell of a deal.
