Our 2021 Draft debacle

But you said in the post I responded to.... "We have Wilson, so he's the guy I'm rooting for. I don't think that he'll be the guy to turn this thing around where others haven't managed it, but I hope to be proven wrong."


So it can't be a pretty solid draft if you weren't sold on the #2 pick, our new QB, the most important position on the field. If you did not like him, then every other thing JD did is irrelevant & not a good draft.

 

OCs come and go. At 2 you should be picking the best player with consideration for premium positions of course..

 

Then why have the other six rounds then? If the first pick isn't a home run than the whole thing was a failure? I guess me not liking Wilson makes Vera-Tucker and Moore terrible football players that can't help us at all.

 

Edit

 

The same genius GM but this time with Matt Nagy as his coach. Matt Nagy was in KC when they traded up for Mahomes. Nagy inherited Trubisky. This is the 1st time he got to pick his QB. So he’s not a genius yet.

 

Not the point. It is a QB-driven league! I'm getting the vibe that you and ouchy would have preferred picks and Trask or Darnold at QB. So again, how is it a good draft if you aren't sold on the most important position on the field? If Wilson fails, the other picks won't matter. AVT and Moore won't make a difference if Wilson struggles, as you most likely believe he will.

 

It's a good draft because we got several quality football players that can help the team. Yes, I would have preferred trading down and keeping Darnold, because outside of Lawrence, I don't have a lot of faith in this QB class.

You can judge the draft in whatever way you want to. That's perfectly fine. But the way I see it, we got several high quality players that can help this team moving forward. If Wilson turns out to be a complete bust, then Vera-Tucker, Moore, and others could very well still be around to help the next guy that they draft. Wilson being a bust doesn't mean that Vera-Tucker can't go on to be a stud on the OL for the next decade like Ferguson and Mangold were, and it doesn't mean that Moore can't become a player that can really help this team moving forward or that Michael Carter could become a great RB that can help carry the team. The 49ers managed to reach the Super Bowl despite not having a great QB, leaning instead on the ground game (using the same system we're about to see in NY), so that's an area that Vera-Tucker and Carter can help this team with now if Wilson struggles. And that's not to say that Wilson will struggle. He could be one of those players that goes on to help the team. But not agreeing with his selection doesn't mean that I wish him any ill will (I don't; I hope he succeeds), or that it somehow magically means that the rest of the players that Douglas has drafted are all of a sudden bad football players.

 

Hmmm. Darnold sucks. Now that was a horrible draft pick who was 5th or 6th on my board. Actually wasn't even on my board since there was no way in hell I would have ever drafted him. How can I trust your opinion on the rest of the draft or what we should have done in regards to acquiring more picks? You already said you dislike Wilson, so already you're questioning JDs judgment. He traded up & got a player we both love. You did not want to trade up, I did. We would not have gotten the player you liked had he not traded up. You would have traded back for more picks.

 

I don't particularly care if you feel you can "trust" my opinion. It's of no consequence to me if you trust my opinion or not.

As for the Vera-Tucker pick. You state that I wouldn't have traded up to get him. I never said that. I would have traded down from #2, yes. The haul we could have gotten from that pick could have given us additional first-rounders in at least the next two drafts. I wouldn't have traded down from #23, though. Say we had traded #2 to some team for their #1 this year and the next two years (in addition to perhaps other picks), that wouldn't have kept us from shipping the #23 pick and the two third-rounders to Minnesota to move ahead of New England and take Vera-Tucker. We could have still done that even while trading #2 for a massive haul of draft picks.

 

That logic is certainly flawed. The Jets were in a position to choose between four first round QBs without having to trade up. The 49ers had to forego the 12th overall pick and two additional third rounders to take the third guy. The Bears gave up the 20th pick and an additional first and third rounder to take the fourth guy.

This was a clear “strike while the iron is hot” situation.

 

I know. But I had to point out that you would have kept Darnold as our QB and did the trade-a-rama. How can you trust JD if you don't even like his QB selection? When Mac drafted Darnold, I was done with him right there. Made no difference who he drafted after that because, in my mind, I knew we would be looking for another QB very soon. Sure enough, 3 wasted years and the little talent we had is traded away.

Ok so you don't like Wilson, but you like our other picks. Let's say Wilson fails and in year 4 it's time to move on as we did with Darnold. However, we now have these picks in year 4 who you like but will be paid a lot more money, possible some good enough for extension leaving us with very little cap room. What do we then? Start trading off those players as the Dolphins did for first-round picks & open up cap space. Can't keep everyone, so if you did the trade-a-rama, we would be capped out since all these players I assume would or at least should be quality picks. Probably have 6 or 7 Marcus Maye situations where we would have to start getting rid of the players that you just traded down for.

Keep in mind, 2 first and 2 seconds next year. They have to be paid too. At some point, you have to consolidate your picks so you can fit existing talented players on your team into the salary cap with extensions.

I'm not completely against your trade-a-rama scenario, but it would really only work if we already had a good QB (not Darnold). Next year is the year to do it since we now have our QB, 2 firsts + 2 seconds. We can do what the Dolphins did this draft. We could go in all different directions which I'm sure JD had in mind. This is a 2-year process in terms of building our foundation. That's the way I'm looking at it & why it made no sense to trade down this year if you like the QB at 2. We can do all the things you want next year. This draft was about getting the right QB. Next year will most likely be all about the defense and patching up a hole or two on offense.

My point is patience. It's a 2 year draft process.

 

If Sam had ever shown the ability to play at a league average level he'd still be on the team.

 

We're running around in circles here but the bold makes no sense because:

1. There's no guarantee the players obtained with additional picks would've been good. QB's bust at only slightly higher rates than most other positions.

2. A top 10 QB is worth literally 3-4X as much as a top 10 anything else. This is quantifiably true in the modern NFL. So you'd have to draft absolute studs with the vast majority of your additional picks for them to have a shot at contributing more to wins and losses than if you just hit on the QB.

 

The problem being you base your entire argument around a draft trade that was never there. Looks like they started at 5 and worked down until they found an acceptable offer.
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.c...-did-not-have-trade-talks-with-jets-for-no-2/

Of course maybe this is bullshit also but it's just as likely if not more likely

 

What are you basing this on? That's quite the leap from a guy who has been a bottom 5 QB for the entirety of his 3 year career.

It won't be hard for Zach to be better than Sam. All he has to do is be average to even slightly below average and it'll be a huge step up for this team.

 

This is true but we didn't draft Wilson to be average. We drafted him at 2 to be great and that's my expectation

 

I agree and I think JD is providing him with the tools necessary to be that.

I'm just pointing out that I didn't agree with Pepsi's assumption that Sam could've been league average because he hasn't even been close to that so far, so Wilson doesn't have much of a hill to climb to be better than Sam was.

 

Justin Fields was picked 11th but we could've taken him at 12?