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Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by Jonathan_Vilma, Mar 15, 2021.

  1. MDJets

    MDJets Well-Known Member

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    he got value players and key positions to fil. He ll pick up a CB and a back up QB. Of all this, only complaint he was he should have grabbed a high end OL regardless the $. Moving on. get a CB and a back up QB and make a huge draft..
     
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  2. ouchy

    ouchy Well-Known Member

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    It would be for Fatu. Darnold is just the bonus prize.

    The thing is, I'm not sure Fatu wont be worth more then the 24th soon. He keeps improving and he is young. Trading our promising young players is where we keep failing.
     
    #1722 ouchy, Mar 21, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2021
  3. MDJets

    MDJets Well-Known Member

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    Shhhhhh don’t tell them that
     
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  4. Falco21

    Falco21 Well-Known Member

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    Fatu ain't worth the 24th overall pick.
     
  5. HomeoftheJets

    HomeoftheJets Well-Known Member

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    The problem with Sam isn't just that his team and coach sucked. It's that his mechanics are awful, he makes bad decisions, and he often doesn't put the ball on target. And most importantly, he hasn't improved at all since his rookie season. I get that Gase is a terrible coach, but what was Sam doing in the offseasons?
     
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  6. IIMeanDeanII

    IIMeanDeanII Well-Known Member

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    I'm not denying his talent though. It wasn't my point In the matter.

    He would've been wasted here. I have no doubt In my mind about It.
     
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  7. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    No doubt that he would not have accomplished or become the player he is or can be, but he definitely would've been better than anyone else, including Darnold. And maybe it would've become blindingly clear that they needed to upgrade the talent around him sooner than that dawned on them with Darnold. In any case, Mahomes is the kind of talent that legitimately can carry a team on his back - of course not entirely by himself, but no QB can do that. What he gives a team is a "puncher's chance" in every game. I'll take that.
     
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  8. IIMeanDeanII

    IIMeanDeanII Well-Known Member

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    I don't buy It.

    Sam has regressed In just about every way since his rookie year. His mechanics did not look anywhere near as bad as they did since Gase got a hold of him.

    I've watched a lot of very good QBs ruined by shit teams, GMs, and coaches.

    It's no coincidence to me when I see these QBs who are drafted later, to winning cultured teams, find a ton of success. Then I see these top prospects at the position, going to dumpster fire teams and busting out of the league.

    I can't ignore that and I don't think It would matter who we've had under center this last decade, It would've been for not.

    The power of the what if game though, ya know?
     
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  9. IIMeanDeanII

    IIMeanDeanII Well-Known Member

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    That's what I mean though.

    I don't believe peyton manning or tom brady could've carried this team at any point this past decade of ineptitude.

    I truly believe when you hire a failed HC from within the same division. It shows just how little hope we truly should've had all along.

    We haven't had a chance because of the terrible decisions from the top of this pyramid.

    We've had a bottom tier offense for how long now?

    I think the opposite Is more telling..

    When you have QBs struggling this badly, that should've motivated decision makers to provide a much more talent induced offense. It hasn't happened.

    To me, the choices and decisions that have been made look more like a team with a very talented QB who can skate by on the barr minimum. So, the urgency for not doing so would be more understanding to me than our current situation with Darnold.

    Since Darnold has come into this league, every year, Darnold NEEDS a better supporting cast. Darnold needs help. Darnold doesn't have any weapons.

    Yet, nothing is done about it.

    It's baffling.

    It's been impossible for success here with the way things have been ran.

    I'm hoping that changes now.

    Yet.

    It's still a wait and see situation. Unfortunately.
     
  10. REVISion

    REVISion Well-Known Member

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    I would agree with this but Darnold's issues in the NFL have been the exact same issues he had in college. Namely poor decision making and turnovers.
     
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  11. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    One other point - if they had drafted Mahomes instead of Adams, there is a fair chance that they would've played well enough to save Bowles's job...and prevent the hiring of Gase.
     
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  12. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I know all of this, and yes, the problem has always been at the top. The only reason that we might have some reason for hope is that the Idiot Brothers have said they're going to let Joe run the show, so let's hope they do.

    But the problem was not in drafting Darnold, it was in not surrounding him with talent and good coaching. So what's the solution to that? Just refrain from drafting a potential FQB until the powers that be realize they need to upgrade the talent and coaching? And if that's the case and you stay with a mediocre (at best) QB, how will you know if the coaching and talent is any good - how much of the record and performance of the team is affected by that mediocre QB and how much by the CS and the rest of the team?

    At this point however we have a "new" GM making his choices for CS and talent, and we have a new CS that comes from successful backgrounds, and it certainly looks like the talent is much better than it was last year. From my POV, that provides good reason to keep Darnold to see what he can do, AND to draft another QB in case he can't elevate his game. After doing that and seeing what happens this next season we should know with great certainty what the next steps are.
     
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  13. LAJet

    LAJet Well-Known Member

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    Darnold issues stem from not being mature enough, confident enough ready enough nor strong minded enough to deal with an idiot HC with a game plan that was way off his comfort range without any horses to implement.
     
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  14. REVISion

    REVISion Well-Known Member

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    He's also just too stubborn. There were concerns about his throwing motion leading to inaccuracy coming out of college. Sam said he doesn't think he has to change his motion and here we are. Meanwhile Josh Allen, who works with the same QB coach Sam does, worked hard this last offseason to completely redo his motion and became a lot more accurate as a result.
     
  15. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    What you said in this post and what HomeoftheJets said are not mutually exclusive. Yes, Sam has regressed in every way, but it's also true that he had issues with poor footwork, shaky accuracy, and poor decision-making at USC, and they've never been corrected. That's not all his fault, but neither is he blameless. In addition to the lousy coaching and ill-fitting scheme with Gase, he's had an awful OL, and mediocre skill players around him. Much of Sam's accuracy issues are directly related to his poor footwork, and that is something that Sam could have fixed with his QB coach Jordan Palmer and should have fixed, and he hasn't.
     
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  16. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    https://www.espn.com/blog/new-york-...l-free-agency-but-they-still-need-a-big-draft

    New York Jets spend $75M in NFL free agency, but they still need a big draft
    Rich Cimini
    ESPN Staff Writer


    FLORHAM PARK, N.J. -- A look at what's happening around the New York Jets:

    1. Joe draft: An early takeaway on Joe Douglas' free-agent class: This is a general manager planning to crush the 2021 NFL draft, which he believes is the most prudent way to upgrade his talent-starved roster.
    He needs to be right or else the misery in Gotham will continue.

    While the Jets have signed eight players for about $75 million in guarantees, nearly $20 million more than last year's total, it hasn't been "all gas, no brake." It certainly hasn't been (Bill) Belichickian either, not with approximately $25 million in remaining salary-cap room.

    Douglas got in early and high on defensive end Carl Lawson and wide receiver Corey Davis, whom he identified as the best at their respective positions, but the rest of the class is filled with Band-Aids. A segment of the Jets' fan base is antsy, watching big-name players fly off the board as the Jets sit with pressing needs at cornerback, running back, offensive line, tight end and, of course, quarterback.

    The starting five on the offensive line remains untouched, the same line that ranked 29th in sack percentage, 31st in pressure percentage and 29th in pass block win rate. They made a run at coveted guard Joe Thuney, but he signed a record contract with the Kansas City Chiefs. All-Pro center Corey Linsley would have been a nice add, allowing them to move Connor McGovern to guard, but the Jets showed no interest and he signed with the Los Angeles Chargers.

    Their rationale? The Jets believe McGovern is a better center than guard, where he'd be isolated against top interior pass-rushers. They also saw improvement in his game late last season. They feel the overall play of the line will improve in coordinator Mike LaFleur's zone blocking scheme, which can camouflage deficiencies.

    The offense is far from whole, even with Davis and Keelan Cole Sr. upgrading the receiving corps. With nine draft picks, including three in the top 34, Douglas has a chance to remedy that. He can acquire more draft capital by trading quarterback Sam Darnold, but there's already enough draft capital to find multiple starters.

    The offensive line takes on a different look if you add Oregon tackle Penei Sewell or USC guard Alijah Vera-Tucker. The weaponry gets a boost with Florida tight end Kyle Pitts or Clemson running back Travis Etienne. This is the Douglas strategy: Fill holes in free agency, build the core via the draft. More than any of his predecessors, Douglas has remained true to that philosophy.

    But what about those ultra-aggressive New England Patriots? Relax. The Jets didn't have to wage a Belichick-like spending spree because they have a resource the Patriots don't -- an abundance of draft capital. And Douglas is planning to max it out. He'd better.

    2. Dollar Bill: Don't say the Jets don't spend money. The numbers are ever-changing, but the Jets' $75 million in spending ranks fourth in the league, according to ESPN Stats & Information. Belichick's Patriots have doled out $156 million in guarantees, the New York Giants in second with $97 million and the Jacksonville Jaguars next at $82 million.

    The Jets have put most of their eggs in two baskets, Lawson and Davis.

    3. Corey story: One AFC scout told me he believes Davis will make a smooth transition to the Jets' offense because it's similar to that of the Tennessee Titans. In Tennessee, he put up good numbers on play-action in 2020 -- 26 catches for 544 yards, a 20.9 average. He was effective on intermediate crossing routes, beyond the linebackers. The Jets plan to make play-action a big part of their offense. A standout stat on Davis: Over the past three seasons, the Titans' quarterbacks threw one interception when targeting him.

    4. On the edge: Did some film study on Lawson and came away impressed with his upfield burst. He has closing speed, and the Jets haven't had a player like that in some time. It makes you wonder why he had only 5.5 sacks last season, including two coverage sacks and two against 39-year-old left tackle Jason Peters of the Philadelphia Eagles. On one play, he made Peters look silly, beating him with a spin move that turned him around.

    Lawson played right end for the Cincinnati Bengals, almost in a wide-9 technique at times -- which makes him a scheme fit in coach Robert Saleh's defense. I wouldn't call him stout against the run, but that's not why he received a $30 million guarantee. He's getting paid to affect the quarterback. He needs to be a double-digit sacker to justify his massive contract. Talent evaluators love his upside.

    5. Big, big money: Let's put Lawson's contract into perspective. Based on guarantees, it's the fifth largest in franchise history, behind C.J. Mosley ($43 million), Darrelle Revis ($39 million), Muhammad Wilkerson ($37 million) and Trumaine Johnson ($34 million). It's fair to say the latter three didn't work out; each one had a five-year contract, but lasted only two.

     
  17. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    6. Here's a kick: This might come as a surprise, considering they already have Sam Ficken and Chase McLaughlin. (Or maybe it won't come as a surprise because ... well, it's Ficken and McLaughlin.) But the Jets have been quietly looking into free-agent kickers. There aren't many left on the market.

    7. Corner market: The Jets are hoping to find a starting-caliber cornerback. The biggest name is Richard Sherman, but I'd be surprised if that happens. Once again, Douglas will lean on the draft for long-term solutions. They also had interest in safety/linebacker Keanu Neal, but he opted for the Dallas Cowboys.

    8. Middle men: The addition of linebacker Jarrad Davis has fueled speculation about Mosley, whose roster spot appears shaky. Yes, the Jets are open to trading him, a source said, but that will be difficult because he's owed $14 million in guarantees over the next two seasons.

    The Jets believe Davis can thrive as a middle linebacker in their 4-3 scheme, which emphasizes lateral movement over the 3-4's downhill style. His speed is what attracted the Jets' coaches. (He's faster than Mosley, but slower than Neville Hewitt, according to tracking data.) They also think he has position flexibility and could slide to one of the outside spots, but that might be a stretch. Statistically, he's horrible in coverage. In 366 coverage snaps over the past two years, he allowed 39 completions and two touchdowns in 50 targets as the nearest defender, per NFL Next Gen Stats.

    Mosley's cap charge is a manageable $7.5 million, but it means there's $13 million committed to two players at the same position.

    9. Hardy praise for Hardee: The addition of Justin Hardee didn't spark big headlines, but he will improve the special teams, according to former longtime special-teams coordinator Mike Westhoff. He coached the New Orleans unit in 2017 and 2018, Hardee's first two seasons. He said Hardee was so good as a gunner in 2018 that "he could've gone to the Pro Bowl."

    Westhoff recalled Hardee's tenacity in practice as a scout-team cornerback, how he battled star wide receiver Michael Thomas every day.

    "It was something to watch; they'd get in fistfights," Westhoff said with a laugh. "I think he helped make Michael Thomas a better football player."

    Hardee suffered one infamous moment during his four years in the Big Easy; he was victimized on the Los Angeles Rams' fake punt in the 2018 NFC Championship Game. As a gunner, Hardee gave cushion and backpedaled too quickly on Sam Shields, leaving him open for a pass by punter Johnny Hekker. Westhoff took the blame, saying he instructed Hardee to play the wrong technique.

    Westhoff called it a "good pickup" by the Jets.

    10. Last word: "I looked up some stuff on YouTube about Coach Saleh. I’ve heard about him throughout the league and I saw he took the job here. I looked at some of his interviews and I just came away with how impressive he was, the message he was preaching. Even in a video, I felt like he was talking to me. That was in the back of my mind. It kind of started there." -- Lawson on his decision to pick the Jets.

    ****

    Interesting that Neville Hewitt is faster than Jarrad Davis. If what Cimini said has any merit, Mosley could indeed be getting traded.
     
  18. HomeoftheJets

    HomeoftheJets Well-Known Member

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    We should trade Mosley, he has more value to a team ready to win now than a rebuilding team.
     
  19. JetFan20

    JetFan20 Well-Known Member

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    His cap hit is brutal next year.
     
  20. ouchy

    ouchy Well-Known Member

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    Is this one of the writers we don't like? Because if this stuff is true I'm getting a little nervous.

    Best players at their positions?

    We passed on Linsley because of faith in McGovern?

    I don't know, to me' there is a lesson we should have learned over the last 10 seasons. When we say the lineman started looking good at the end of the season, that means we need a new lineman. Please don't make the mistake of thinking he can be the guy next season. That is the last decade of our offensive line.
     

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