This is actually a very good point. There is so much expectation on the top two or three picks, it's almost impossible for them to live up to it.
You're completely wrong because I really want them to draft a QB that I have watched a bunch of Youtube videos about.
Quick, quick watch this... and laugh at the tossers in the first 5 mins or so, absolutely know nothing experts again lol
I have already acknowledged that the Jets did everything they could to ruin Sam. That was a totally different regime except for the owners, and they have now stepped back and are let JD run the show. You can't equate what Mac, Gase and Bowles did with what JD and Saleh have done or will do. You make it sound like Sam is just an innocent victim and had no part in this,and nothing could be further from the truth. He is equally responsible for his poor play. Yes, Sam struggled for 3 years because the Jets had an incompetent GM and incompetent coaching staffs. We no longer have an incompetent GM, and at least by all appearances, we no longer have an incompetent CS, although the jury is still out on that. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't take a QB however. That's taking a fear-based approach to team building and the draft, and that will never work. It's sad to see how you and others have allowed pessimism and fear to totally warp your views on things. Thank God JD doesn't operate that way. I guarantee you that if he doesn't take a QB in the draft, it won't be because he is afraid of wasting the pick because the QB won't be supported or surrounded or receive poor coaching. It's because he believes they can fix Sam. I can't imagine that he would really think that and risk both his career and Saleh's on that belief. If anything, he will keep Sam AND draft a QB to ensure that he has a quality QB that they can build around and with which they can move forward. QB is the core piece. You don't put that off and add it later after the team is built, then have to try to find someone that will fit in with that identity. That's a loser approach. You take the QB and build the team and its identity around that QB. Yes, when QBs are drafted by lousy teams at the top of the draft, they often fail. That is due to the incompetent GMs and incompetent coaching they receive. That's what happened with Sam. We now have a new GM and new CS that will be better than their predecessors. So a new QB won't be going into the same situaton that Sam did. Both Mahomes and Watson should have been top 5 picks. The fact that they weren't is a testament to how blind and stupid NFL GMs can be. Your logic is totally flawed. You're equating apples with oranges which is ridiculous. You're taking something that happened that shouldn't have happened, and then trying to derive a premise from that to base your draft philosophy upon. QBs fail to develop as do players at all positions. It hurts when a #1 or #2 pick proves to be a bust. That doesn't mean that one should never draft a player in the 1st and 2nd round again and that one should trade down every year for a bunch of middle and lower round picks. It also doesn't mean that the Jets should never draft a QB high again or have to try to build their team first and then take on the impossible task of finding a FQB at that point. That will never happen. It's simply not reality, no matter how much some of you try to claim that it is. One just has to do a better job of scouting and player analysis. No NFL GM would operate under such a fear-based and backwards premise, especially when their careers are pretty much based on whether they found a quality QB of not. Often they're only given a few years now in which to find a quality starter and/or FQB. If they don't, then they're fired. NFL owners aren't patient like they once were. GMs don't have 10 years or more to get it right. You completely ignored my comments about all the draft picks we have and the cap space with which to sign FAs that can be used to build around the QB. Just because we currently only have an LT, slot WR, and Mims is only because FA and the draft haven't happened yet. If you truly think that JD isn't going to build around a QB he takes and make the same mistake as Mac, Idzik, Bradway and others, then I don't know what to tell you.
MacCagnan picked the wrong QB in the SECOND round and it set us back a decade, since he used Hackenberg as his reason for passing on Mahomes AND Watson. Picking a non-FQB, especially with a high draft pick, can set teams back a decade easily. If JD goes with Fields/Wilson, I hope he right (finally!!!). If not, it's the end of Joe Douglas in NY.
It only sets a team back if they stay married to that pick and refuse to move on in a timely fashion if it's clear that the high draft pick sucks. For all of their faults, the Browns and Broncos have continuously searched for the guy, despite continually taking quarterbacks with high draft picks. The Broncos have moved on quickly from Tebow, Brock Osweiler, Paxton Lynch and all reports are they'll move on from Drew Lock if the opportunity presents itself. Similarly the Browns have ran through Brady Quinn, Brandon Weeden, Manziel, DeShone Kizer and have finally settled on Baker. It's only poor management if there is organizational stubbornness like what was exhibited by Maccagnan.
Yes and the reason the expectations are so high is that a top 5 pick is supposed to turn into a superstar. If you take a guy at the game's most important position in that range and they don't turn into a superstar you basically have blown the pick in the fan's eyes.
Maccagnan set us back by passing on Mahomes and Watson, not by drafting Hackenberg. If he'd drafted Hackenberg and then taken Mahomes or Watson, nobody would care he drafted Hackenberg.
It is a poor scouting network to keep drafting so many awful QB's like that as well, some shocking names there.
I didn't mean to ignore about the draft picks and cap space. I will start there. Ok we had 10 pick this year. We have 4 players from it that maybe good. Not great, but good. And I have to see more tape to be positive on those 4. So far that's a 40% at best from JD. No don't get me wrong I want JD to succeed. I still have faith in him. But it's an uphill struggle. He's gonna fail on a lot of picks. That's just how it works. If Becton, Hall, Davis, and Mims do become what we all hope I still think we did well. As for cap space, I haven't seen any good moves yet. There were a few above average. But nothing to write home about. I do like that all the contracts he gave were setting us up for the future. Again though I have faith but not counting my chicken before they hatch. Now, yes, Mahomes and Watson should have gone high. But they as well may have not developed as well on other teams. They didn't have the pressure of being the only one on the team to carry it. Now Watson did this year and he did well, but without those years with Hopkins and a decent defense he may not have. I do think that drafting a qb high is a good thing if said qb is a surefire bet. I think there is only one in this draft and we won't have that opportunity. Not saying Fields and Wilson have no chance to develop. It's just a very low chance. I believe more in Wilson than Fields so if I was forced to pick that is who I would take. And before someone goes on about the you never watched them, I live in Indiana. Ohio State and Louisville are on local channel for every game.
Regarding the bold, there's maybe 1 QB prospect every 4-5 years who's a surefire bet. Everyone else has some question marks. That doesn't mean you should only attempt to draft a QB every 4-5 years if you don't currently have one, that would be preposterous and likely lead to you never getting one in any reasonable timeframe. I think what it comes down to is having a good QB is a prerequisite to having sustained success in the modern NFL. With that in mind, you should do everything possible to get a good QB until you have one. The evidence says that in general, QB's taken higher in the draft have a higher chance of being good. It's very rare to pick as high as #2 overall. The Jets have been a very bad team for a long time and haven't picked this high in 24 years. There are a lot of respected analytics sites that are very high on Fields and especially Wilson. I think it's a no brainer to take one of them at #2 overall.
Saying 'Broncos move on quickly from a bad QB pick (Tebow, Osweiler, Paxton)' so the damage is minimized'. But there's still damage. How long ago did they draft Tebow? And they STILL haven't gotten it right (3 QBs and a DECADE later). But I think we both agree.....GMs gotta get it right, or it really kills the whole roster/momentum they may have had before making a bad selection.
They took Osweiler and Tebow within a three year period and still opened their checkbooks in the same period to Peyton Manning who went to two Super Bowls in four years and had one of the greatest quarterbacking seasons of all time. They weren't attached to their draft picks to the point where they weren't open minded to seek out a better option if it became available. Which seems like the point you were trying to make with Hackenberg as if the mere selection held the franchise back from getting a better prospect. It wasn't the selection - it was the stubbornness of the front office to not admit their failures and move on especially once he couldn't even show enough on the practice field to warrant any regular season game action in his career. Good franchises move on from mistakes. Bad franchises do too sometimes. Just because they don't right the wrong doesn't mean that they did not try. And for what it's worth, the Broncos are a pretty good drafting franchise. The irony is that Elway just can't figure out the fucking quarterback position for the life of him which is likely why he just handed personnel decisions over.
JD has been the GM for over half of Sams's career, he has done him no favors, let his favorite w/o walk for peanuts, unable to find o-line man, ruined our depth at running back. If we are able to have as much talent on our team after free agency and the draft this yr compared to the day he took over the team, we will be lucky, almost 2 yrs wasted. Most of the posters here with our limited resources could have done a better job than JD has done and that is scary. JD in 2 yrs has netted us a left tackle and a 20 catch w/o, and a few fringe players. Mac, Idziks players are the backs JD hopes to rebuild on of, to be as good as the team he inherited.
NOT moving on from Hack (in time to draft Mahomes/Watson) was a mistake of horrific proportions. I get that Hack hadn't had his day in the sun yet, so MacCagnan wasn't ready for the egg on his face for having drafted him. How many times have we all said that a rookie QB should sit and learn a year. That's what the coaching staff was doing with Hack (plus not wanting to play him b/c he sucked). But in general, especially if you take a QB #2 overall, you HAVE to give him AT LEAST 3 years to blossom. Even that may not be enough time with a borderline player like Sam, especially if they sat the first year. We gave Sanchez like 6 years. It's not always easy to 'quickly move on from your mistake' when there are some who keep saying the guy has talent and just needs more time. It's also becomes colossal failure for the GM for having drafted the QB in the first place, and most GMs can't have that many major mistakes and keep their jobs. So ya, taking the wrong QB (especially high) means your team will invest AT LEAST 3, maybe 4 years. Then it becomes do-over time with another rookie QB. Another 3-4 years 'seeing if QB #2 is THE GUY'. Either way, it's closing in on a decade from when the first mistake was drafted. It's better to be DANG sure, or as DANG sure as you can be, without doubts, or god forbid serious doubts, for the guy becoming the FQB. So if JD is DANG sure about Fields/Wilson, then YES!!!! Lets go! BUT if there's serious doubt, then it's better to try again next year.
In the fans eye may be, but for every FQB picked successfully there are probably 20 that either become pedestrians or busts. It is tougher than nails hitting on the very few that will become your FQB for the long haul. More the reason we should continue to draft QB till we find our guy. Furthermore is not every day you get the second pick, even by Jets standards. If a QB prospect is deemed worthy of having the potential to be a FQB he will most likely gravitate to the top 1-3 picks. So we need to make it count if we see the potential. Fans assessment be damned.
It's easier than the Jets made it with Hackenberg. That's why the coaching staff needs to work very closely with the coaching staff and why our previous organizational structure fucked that all up. It should be relatively easy to know that you should move on from a player if he can't hit the broad side of a barn in practice and you'd be terrified to put him in a regular season game even as a rookie.
IMO this is as inaccurate an assessment on JD as one could get. He didn’t hit as much on the OL as he needed to, but he did far, far more by a land slide over the prior two incompetent GMs that left him very little to build on. How did he destroy the running game by the way? By getting rid of Bell?
