Yes I read the whole thing. you interpreted the data wrong. I didn't say rookies I said rookie contracts or cheap contracts. as far as the 4 teams left all 4 are good overall teams. not reliant just on their QB. allen and mahomes are on rookie deals (mahomes new money hasn't kicked in) and are really cheap. rodgers and brady are also relatively cheap for their talents. all 4 cost way less then watson will with us. all 4 have good coaching staffs. hell the packers right now have 4 all pro players on their team. funny enough all 4 drafted by the same GM (who sadly died yesterday after being retired a few years) I said it earlier in this thread but what team has had the most success in the NFL over the past decade in terms of wins and superbowl. the patriots. bellichick is one of the best coaches all time. he convinced brady to take less money for the betterment of the team because by paying him what he is worth they won't win superbowls. brady brought into it and has been underpaid his entire career. even this year he took 10-15 mil less to play for the bucs to try for a SB and is still in it. Now if the 2 best people in NFL history at winning superbowls (brady and bellichick) agree a QB making to much doesn't win you superbowls. and selflessly took less money to win superbowls and went out and actually won superbowls do you really think myself, you or anyone on a forum knows how to win superbowls better then those 2? you'd have to be really arrogant to think you know better then tom and bill on how to win superbowls. so who are we to disagree with them which has proven to work? and they did this all while drafting like shit too.
I'll make the rather obvious blanket statement that applies to either side of the argument. Whether you pay a quarterback big money, if you don't draft and develop players and retain the right ones (not every one), you are going to 1) struggle to get to the Super Bowl and 2) struggle to consistently get to the playoffs. Not to mention all of the breaks you will likely need to get to get there. The Bills have Josh Allen on his rookie contract, a well rounded team that has stopped the run in the playoffs (crappy running game for their offense is the only weakness), and they still needed moronic game management by Frank Reich and a horrific gameplan/performance by Lamar Jackson and friends (7 points on offense in that game) to win. Look at all of the breaks the two Giants teams got. Peyton Manning goes to the Super Bowl the year the Ravens one if the dumbfucks on the Broncos sideline play prevent defense.
yes. do you not see how so many superbowls are decided by so little? adding in that 1 or 2 players makes a huge difference. brady is making 10-15 mil less then he could be this season alone. the bucs have less then 3 mil cap room. bradys discount is enough to cover the cap of evans and suh 2 key pieces to their team
it could be but later on he wanted to get paid and they sort of said no. plus other players didn't have Giselle making the bacon like brady did and they took short deals, e.g., gronk personally if the team commits to not cheap out and spend as much as the rules allow them to spend a player who priortizes winning shouldn't be trying to squeeze every nickel out of the team for themselves. If i were supreme ruler i would pay all the lower end contracts full fair value, and all the pricier guys i would try and get shared sacrifice. we'll pay each of you 90% of FMV. You're worth 10 million we know but if we pay you 9 and everyone else does same we'll have that much more talent on the team i know some would laugh in my face but if you want to win you have to get more talent for the dollar
I normally agree, but totally disagree that Brady is the best player to have ever put on NFL pads. I can name at least 10 maybe 20 players who are or who were better. Aaron Rodgers is better, so is Jim Brown, Gayle Sayers, Walter Payton, Lawrence Taylor, and Reggie White. That's just for starters off the top of my head.
you can't deny that it certainly helped. Ask yourself why would he do it? Was he trying to save billionaire Kraft a few more million, no? he knew it would help the team. and even for the Giselle argument, why didn't he demand top dollar and then just give to charity what he didn't want?? he was taking short money because he prioritized winning. that simple.
the fact that Maximus and Vilma are advocating for Watson even with the big money really makes me question my judgment on this. those guys are super smart frankly i'm so much happier that Douglas is making this decision rather than a Maccagnan
yes they are very smart posters but even smart posters make mistakes. the point he set out to prove in his OP actually backfired as it was looked at wrong. statistically speaking even with his inflated cap numbers we probably won't get odds are in favor of us never winning a SB with watson based on the data
Brady only took what he was offered with the Bucs. How many teams seriously inquired about his services this off-season? 2. He didn’t say: Hey NFL, I’ll take a discount who wants me?? Only 2 teams showed interest, and his market was exactly the same as both other QB’s in his age range. He got the same deal as Rivers and Brees. On the Patriots, why do they have $13.5 million in dead cap for Brady this year? Because they had to push $13.5 million into the future just to pay him to play him. Step back and think about the fact that you’re actually saying one low level starter is the difference between the Patriots 6 Championships. Rodgers cap hit was $29.352 million in 2019, 15.61% of the cap. It’s $21.462 million this year. Hmm, that extra cap space must be really important to their success... Well let’s look at all of the cap space being used on players who aren’t playing in their playoff run. -Jordan Love -Jimmy Graham -David Bakhtiari -8 Other players with dead money. -11 other players on IR. Between all of this and the $10 million in unused cap, the Packers have $44,499,911 in cap that is not being used on the active playoff roster. In other words, 22.45%. And yet somehow they’ve been to back to back NFC Championships... How can this be? Surely they must have needed this space to be competitive... If you can, with a straight face, say that you can’t be competitive with Watson because he is 1 or 2% more expensive than other Super Bowl winning QB’s, while teams often carry more than 1-2% in dead cap purely from a few scrubs they casually signed and cut, you have to be out of your mind.
Factor in the cap hit plus the draft costs of getting Watson and it really isn't a hard decision. Making that much of a sacrifice for one player in hopes of saving our 2-14 butts is the SOJ.
I appreciate the props, but frankly whatever my opinion is worth in general I would say that what I know the most about is the salary cap. I strongly encourage people not to take my, or anyone’s opinions at face value, and I’m fine with being questioned. This particular topic is something I’ve spent a lot of time on, which is why I’ll pretty much debate it to the end.
Good for Brady. But we can't get an elite QB willing to take less money, so that doesn't matter to us.
If you start with teams that just won the Super Bowl, they're almost certainly going to go backward regardless of what they do.
brees took a weird contract to save cap room. his cap hit was only 23.6 mil this year. watson is going to be 10 mil more then that. as fr as rivers he isn't comparable to brady. we don't know what brady was offered but we know he's worth a lot more then 25 mil. he's tied for 5th highest paid in 2020 but also well below the watson and mahoms numbers of 40-50 mil a year. that's why daks franchise tag which is the average of the top 5 paid QBs actually made him the highest cap QB this season. only 2 Qbs dak and wilson counted 30 mil of the cap this season and both teams didn't do shit. wilson was let down by a shitty defense and so was dak. they both had the bottom 2 ranked defenses in the NFL which cost dallas anything espcially when dak went down they had nothing going for them and seattle couldn't win in the playoffs against a QB with a broken thumb. As far as the packers go they drafted really well and have lots of people but funny they weren't as good when rodgers was 30 mil cap then they were with rodgers at 21.5 mil cap. that only proves my point further. plus the cap is going down this year which is huge. had covid not happened this would be a different story. the packers currently have only 3 million in space and next year are already 26 million over the cap so to sign rookies they need to clear about 36 million in cap room. rodgers counts 36 million next year. they will shed talent and be a worse team next year. which again proves my point their best year was when rodgers was only a 21.5 mil hit not when he was 30 or 36. they levegred the future for an all in year. texans did it and sucked now they are screwed. saints did it and did good but fell short and now are screwed. eagles did it got a SB and now are screwed. all 3 teams need to rebuild now. I'd much rather follow the ravens/steelers model which has shown to be consistently good rather then sell the farm for 1 chance and then lead to years of sucking after and again. your opinion is saying brady and billichick don't know how to win superbowls. forget agreeing with me or my opinion. If you think you know how to win a SB better then those 2 guys you have to be out of your mind
it's because many sell out for that 1 chance and give up alot in the future to get more in the now and it catches up to them. the teams that have had sustained success like the pats, steelers, and ravens don't do that.
So let me get this right: If we sign Watson now, it will be tougher to build out a competitive team. If we team build first, it will be tougher to find a QB compatible to Watson. Do I have it right? OK, so what will be tougher? Build out a competitive team under the constraints of having a large QB contract and lesser draft picks, or finding a high quality QB in 2 years when we're ready to compete.
no but we can hope to draft an elite QB that would be cheap. you never know who is the next watson or mahomes. at 1 point they were just a mid 1st round talent like wilson and lance are this year.
