Peter King: "Jets Struck It Rich" When Fields KO'd Clemson

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by JetsKickAss, Jan 4, 2021.

  1. NOVAJET

    NOVAJET "2020 TGG Fantasy Football Champ"

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    I feel like everyone is in agreement on this issue just not on the issue of Fields /Wilson being worth the #2. I think we can all agree if the new coach and JD do their evaluations and decide its worth selecting a QB at 2 from the options available then they should absolutely do it, if not then don't and trade back. Really it's about putting it in the hands of the people and their staffs that get paid to make the decision and put together far more detailed profiles of the players than we do to make the choice. All we can do as fans is hope they don't f*#+ it up.
     
  2. 88toon

    88toon Well-Known Member

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    Well said. I think if 1) the Johnsons let Joe D pick the coach and Joe D and the coach work together to thoroughly evaluate the QBs with the rest of the coaching staff and scouting dept AND 2) they change the reporting structure to have the coach report to Joe D we MAY have a shot to not f*ck this up.
     
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  3. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    This really boils down to: "What is Douglas's opinion of Darnold and the potential QBs in the draft?" And there is a closely coupled aspect: "What is Douglas's philosophy of the QB position in building a winning team?"

    No one here - unless their last name is Douglas - knows the answers to these questions. We all wish we did, but we don't. That's okay, that's what makes all this discussion possible. But no one should be talking as if they're the expert on this, because in the end, even Douglas's decisions are based on his own opinion. Interview the other 31 GMs and you'll get different opinions, some closer or farther away from Douglas's.

    All I can speak to - and what anyone else here can speak to - is what I want to see happen.

    First, I want to see the Jets become perennial contenders, along the lines of the Steelers and other repeat winners.

    Second, I prefer that this perennial contender be based on the old high flying aerial circus model of the Namath years, but coupled with a stout defense - which is how they won their only SB. I'm sick and tired of the "ground and pound", "defense wins championships" model that's boring and unsuccessful.

    Beyond those two things, I don't care how they achieve that.

    All that said, while I believe Douglas is knowledgeable and very capable of delivering on my first desire, I suspect he won't go in the direction of my second one. I think he will lean towards the "ground and pound" model of the Ravens. If that's the case I won't be happy, but if he delivers on my first priority I'll be satisfied.

    If he were to try and build a high flying offense, I would urge him to take a QB at #2 - Fields or Wilson. I believe both will have success in the NFL. Trading back from #2 when you need a QB, with the idea that in some future year you will either be terrible - not just "bad", but terrible because that's what getting the #1 or #2 pick requires - OR, trading up from the mid or late 1st round - are terrible trade offs. The first approach requires fans to root for the team to be terrible; the second approach argues for using up at least as many prime picks as you received this year to move up to get your QB.

    There is a third way: forget about getting your FQB in the draft and trading for one or signing a FA. In either case, you're not going to be able to get anyone that their current team feels is valuable. You might get lucky and get a "reclamation" project like Tannehill who works out. But the number of failed reclamation projects in the NFL that have actually succeeded is not favorable. And if this is what you hope for, then why not stick with Darnold, at least until you see what he does with competent coaching and talent around him? Anyone who says he can't be resurrected should read up on Steve Young. I'm not saying he can definitely become a FQB, but we ought to at least prove that first before we allow some other team to prove it for us.

    Anyway, that's my thoughts at this point.
     
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  4. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

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    The only way to do this is to get the franchise quarterback in place. The only franchise who has been able to do this without one is the Ravens and they've still had good (not great) quarterback play since they drafted Flacco and now have elite regular season QB play in Lamar Jackson (even if it's not conventional.

    The Saints, Steelers, Seahawks, Patriots, Colts, and Packers have all had HOF quarterbacks during their tenures of success. The Giants and Chargers to a lesser extent have all been around .500 or better for the better half of the past two decades with their HOF QB in place.

    The Chiefs have entered this territory now and the Bills very well could as well if Allen maintains his recent success.

    No question that the QB needs to be supported and also needs to be the right guy for the job. But there aren't many models in the modern day that suggest that a good offensive line, running game and defense can make you perennial contenders like it used to be with the 90s Steelers or Cowboys. And the 90s Cowboys still boasted a HOF quarterback even if he may not have been without his supporting cast.
     
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  5. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    I agree 100% with this. But what makes things cloudy is: "Does Douglas believe this?" And if he does, does he think he needs to use his highest pick on a QB?
     
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  6. jcass10

    jcass10 Well-Known Member

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    Its like a lot of these writer guys didnt watch the Jets play at all. QB is absolutely a need, Sam is not a good player right now. Is that partially the Jets/Gase's fault? I certainly think so. But that doesnt matter. At the end of the day, QB is a need for the Jets and the draft has a few pretty damn good QBs.

    If Douglas doesnt love these QBs and thinks there is more value in trading back, thats a different discussion. If JD thinks he can trade back a few spots and still get his QB, that too is a different discussion. But if the argument is the Jets dont need a QB because Darnold is good, well thats insane
     
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  7. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Well-Known Member

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    Christopher Johnson and Joe Douglas both answered questions about Sam that led me to believe they are done with him. It is really easy to support your franchise QB and say he is the guy. They chose not to and rightfully so. When they officially move on, they can pin it on the Head Coach's decision, but really they are the ones hiring the guy. So then @ColoradoContrails brings up the truly great question: What is Joe Douglas going to do at #2 overall?

    He may be done with Sam, but that doesn't mean he will draft Fields or Wilson at #2 overall. What if he likes a Kyle Trask or Mac Jones and feels he can get them with the Seahawks pick? What if he likes Trey Lance and can trade down from #2 and still get him plus a lot of draft picks? That is the truly interesting part of this right now and like he said: we have no idea what Douglas is thinking as far as QB evaluation goes.
     
  8. CotcheryFan

    CotcheryFan 2018 ROTY Poster Award Winner

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    The Ravens had Flacco for a while before getting Jackson and rolling with him. Not to mention, they used a high pick on Boller who was a flop. This tells me his former organization did and still does value the QB position.
     
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  9. Wut?

    Wut? Well-Known Member

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    I actually agree with this. I’m more excited than I was about fields l, but from a team building standpoint, drafting an no doubt about it OT AND trading Sam for a second rounder and picking the QBs that fall and letting them develop sounds like a better idea. I just think we need a harbaugh like coach who can make lemonade out of lemons.
     
  10. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    Flacco was drafted 18th overall, Boller 19th, Lamar with the 32nd. That doesn't really tell me that they really value QB as THE central need for sustaining a winning record.

    I'm not saying the Ravens - or Douglas specifically - don't think QB is important, but they haven't shown that they believe taking a QB with a top 5 pick is what they believe in. With that in mind, I'd say the odds are great that Douglas trades back from #2, even if he wants a QB. And keep in mind that besides Sam he drafted Morgan last year, so he may feel he already has the QB job addressed. This is NOT what I personally want, but just my gut feeling about what JD might do.
     
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  11. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

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    I imagine so. The Ravens had Flacco in place and never yielded a high enough pick to get a talented QB that made sense. 2014 was probably their best shot with Bridgewater and Carr available but they were still heavily invested in the Flacco era. They took Marlon Humphrey in 2017 and the next QB drafted after Mahomes and Watson were gone was DeShone Kizer.

    The Ravens aren't a team that would ever trade up (and soundly so), so selecting three QBs over the course of two decades makes sense. Especially when it looks like those two players will have accounted for starting the past thirteen seasons for them.
     
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  12. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    This provides strong evidence against the belief that you need to get a "superstar" as your QB to win. Yes, it's great to have a Peyton, Elway, Favre, Montana, et. al. but aside from the fact that finding one of these guys is like finding a four leaf clover, it still doesn't guarantee you win a SB. For all their greatness, none of them won a SB every year, or even every other year. Obviously the coaching and surrounding talent levels have to be exceptional too.

    And while it would be fun to watch someone like Marino every Sunday, it would become maddeningly frustrating to see him fall short every year.

    This is why I strongly suspect that JD will NOT use that #2 pick on a QB, and while I really like both Fields and Wilson, it's unlikely that either will be in a Jets uniform.
     
  13. Catfish Billy

    Catfish Billy Well-Known Member

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    In the last 20 years, only 4 QBs who aren't HOFers have won (5 if you include Eli). Your chances increase with a HOF QB.
     
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  14. GasedAndConfused

    GasedAndConfused Well-Known Member

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    that I don't know but 16 dropped INTs is the highest amount since it's a stat that has been kept track of.
     
  15. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    Duh. Now the hard part: How do you guarantee getting a HOF QB?

    Aside from that, how much was winning the SB due directly to the QB? We'll have a good "test case" this year: IF Brady wins another SB NOT on a Belichick coached team we can infer that the answer to that question is: A LOT.

    Meanwhile, how many "savior QBs" have been drafted and failed, and put their teams further in a hole because of it?
     
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  16. Catfish Billy

    Catfish Billy Well-Known Member

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    You can't guarantee anything. All you can do is increase your chances by taking the best QB available.
     
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  17. GQMartin

    GQMartin Go 'Cuse

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    And yet, while he was in Philly they traded a lot to get to #2.
     
  18. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    He wasn't the GM in charge.
     
  19. GQMartin

    GQMartin Go 'Cuse

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    Yes, but my point is that he's had real-world exposure to some of our options. This makes it more enigmatic to predict.
     
  20. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    That's my point: who is the best QB available? By whose measurements? When a team actually does pick a QB - regardless of where they pick him - can't we assume that they "took the best QB available" to them at the moment, and to their criteria?
     

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