NFL tanks don’t work anyway

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by Longsuffering88, Dec 21, 2020.

  1. Brook!

    Brook! Soft Admin...2018 Friendliest Member Award Winner

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    This really is a great thread. Wanted to bump it again for perspective.
     
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  2. LAJet

    LAJet Well-Known Member

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    Here are my two cents.A great HC with a good QB trumps a great QB with a good coach. If the coach is not good then nothing else matters.,
     
  3. The Notorious J.E.T.S

    The Notorious J.E.T.S Well-Known Member

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    LOL, this whole board is in the denial stage of grief.

    All of the sudden tanks don’t work, Lawrence isn’t that good, the Jets would have ruined him anyway, Sam is good enough if we give him some weapons, blah blah blah.

    This sucks, let us take some time to deal with it and accept it, and we will eventually move on with the occasional depression when Lawrence wins an MVP or a title.

    We are Jets’ fans, this is the life we have chosen :(
     
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  4. ouchy

    ouchy Well-Known Member

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    We beat the Rams because they thought we were tanking. Seriously, they fell into that trap and acted like they just had to show up and we'd lose for them. Everything about that game indicates this.

    Maybe at some level we were tanking - but the players weren't.

    Sean McVay messed up big time.
     
    #24 ouchy, Dec 24, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2020
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  5. papapump

    papapump Well-Known Member

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    Our players played their hearts out. Without Gase we win by 17.
     
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  6. Snoopdogg

    Snoopdogg Active Member

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    I agree with OP - and have always agreed with OP - that tanking never pays. You end up with a terrible team, a potential but not actual franchise QB (or worse, a non-QB), and a poor culture.

    This time it's more annoying because there is no evidence that the Jets actually tanked, they were just bad. Plus the player on offer seems much better than the average #1 pick, and there are other pieces around already where I think the Jets could be starting an upswing. This would have been perfect...
     
  7. Snoopdogg

    Snoopdogg Active Member

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    This was literally the game where both coaches did dumb things. McVay throwing two long sideline bombs when they literally needed four yards to get a first down to reach into tying FG range is one of the dumbest things I have seen in more than 20 years of football. And having been a Jets fan, that's really saying something.
     
  8. REVISion

    REVISion Well-Known Member

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    I think the opposite of this is more true tbh. I could've been coaching Peyton Manning and he would've carried the teams to winning seasons. Same thing with Rodgers and other greats. The list of great coaches who never won a ring because they couldn't find a QB is long. Hell, that was Andy Reid until Mahomes came along.

    Coaching is definitely super important but I think a great QB is slightly more important than a great coach.
     
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  9. LongIslandBlitz

    LongIslandBlitz Well-Known Member

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    Full Darkside..Theyve done nothing to show us they can put the right players around there QB.They had 3 years to do it with Darnold and they let his only reciver he had something with in Robby Anderson walk.Hes never had a TE or a Running Game,Poor OLine play and mediocre weapons.Would that have changed with Trevor?maybe top free agents would have wanted to play with him.We will never find out we will end up with more no names on the offense.Mims looks ok not really seeing anything special from him yet,Crowders a good slot guy and thats all we have,Perrimans useless,the Tight Ends are the worst in football as a whole.
     
  10. LAJet

    LAJet Well-Known Member

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    Good point. The right answer is probably both. To win the big ones consistently you need the pair or you might be one and out.
     
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  11. JetsKickAss

    JetsKickAss Well-Known Member

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    I think the Rams figured we "won" our game vs. the Raiders....and when that went ker-blooey we got wallopped 40-3 vs. Seattle and they figured they'd win by 2-3 TD's easily.

    I don't think it was our record that lulled them into their lack of effort....it was seeing us "quit" against Seattle after we literally gave away the game with the Raiders.

    I wonder if we lost to Seattle like 17-3 and played them tough if LA would have been on alert instead of snooze.
     
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  12. LongIslandBlitz

    LongIslandBlitz Well-Known Member

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    The good news is the Browns wont make that mistake and will be overprepared for us..The Browns might put up 40
     
  13. Noam

    Noam Well-Known Member

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    We can only hope. I still have the smallest hope that a miracle can happen in the Bears game and we can go into week 17 with a reason to lose.
     
  14. JetsKickAss

    JetsKickAss Well-Known Member

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    I saw where even Gene Frenette of the Jacksonville paper is now advocating a lottery. I think it's going to happen -- not so much because of the tanking issue, but because it's another money-maker for the NFL.

    I heard some guy the other day on The Michael Kay Show and he had the right/general idea: groups of 4 based on how you did with a weighted percentage for each grouping. Jets, Jax, Cincy, Carolina would be in the Top 4 as of today. Maybe give Jax 40% shot....Jets 30%.....Cincy 20%....Carolina 10%.
     
  15. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    I wasn't sure which of the QB related threads to put this in, but it's certainly food for thought:

    https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.c...quarterbacks-rarely-transform-bad-franchises/

    Four current division leaders used a first-round pick on a quarterback, but none followed the “tanking” model to get him: The Chiefs were a playoff when they traded up to draft Patrick Mahomes. The Bills were a playoff team when they traded up to draft Josh Allen. The Packers were a playoff team when they drafted Aaron Rodgers. The Steelers were a 6-10 team but had been in the playoffs the two years before that when they drafted Ben Roethlisberger No. 11 overall.

    The other four division leaders did not draft their starting quarterback in the first round: The Seahawks drafted Russell Wilson in the third round. The Saints signed Drew Brees as a free agent. Washington traded for Alex Smith after the Chiefs decided to move on from him. The Titans traded for Ryan Tannehill after the Dolphins decided to move on from him...

    ...what about the teams that do have a Top 5 draft pick quarterback? Some of them may make the playoffs this year, but overall the results are more bad than good: The teams that have a quarterback picked in the Top 5 on their roster (the Browns, Dolphins, Bengals, Jets, Rams, Cardinals, Bears, Lions, Eagles and Falcons) have a combined record of 60-78-2 this season.

    Bad franchises are often bad for reasons that no one player can change, and sometimes quarterbacks who look like great prospects either languish on bad teams or prove not to be so great. There’s no guarantee that Lawrence can transform a franchise.

    While the gist of this article is that drafting a potentially great QB isn't any guarantee of success - either because the draftee doesn't pan out, or because there's so many other things wrong with the team he alone can't overcome them - it bears repeating that four of the current division leaders used a first round pick on a QB. Two of those teams had to use premium picks to move up to make their pick - Bills and Chiefs - while the other two 'got lucky' that their guy fell to them. So a team that needs a QB capable of taking them to a SB either has to use valuable draft picks to trade up, or they have to be very lucky that their guy falls to them and be willing to keep waiting, year after year until that happens.

    Now presumably a team that has to move up by trading draft picks is in that situation because they're already a pretty good team and have been able to win, and don't need as many premium picks to stay competitive as a losing team, but still, look at the Jets of 15 years ago when they were winning and made the decision to burn draft picks to move up to get Sanchez - they emptied the cupboard and they haven't been the same ever since. Yes, there are other reasons for that drought, like two terrible GMs and two terrible HCs, but they gambled that they had enough talent at the time that they didn't need draft picks and it cost them dearly.

    So what does this all mean for the current Jets? Should they pass on getting a potentially 'generational' QB prospect, or even a really good one, so they can devote their assets into building a really strong team that's lacking a really good QB, and then looking for that SB-caliber QB? I don't think so. I think they should certainly take Lawrence if they have the chance. If they don't, I would want to take one of the other QBs, whichever I think has the best chance of success. For me that's Wilson right now, but that assessment could change based on how Fields does. But I would try to trade back a couple of picks is I believed I could still get my guy. Worst case, I'd take him at #2, assuming that based on all the information I've been able to acquire on him I'm convinced he's a "sure thing". And the reason I would use that high pick on a QB is because it's cheaper than having to use draft picks later on to move up to get a QB. But the other KEY piece to this is that I would fire Gase and hire a competent CS, and I would continue to focus on building up the offense - OL and skill position players - with top talent, and until that part is accomplished I would not have any big expectations of success.




     
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