You've undermined that statement regarding the impact of a franchise QB when you said that generational QBs are not that important to a team and when you said that the Jets could just get another QB, as if they grow on trees. I didn't say that they shouldn't listen to trade offers for the pick if we wind up with the #1 pick, but imo there's no way that they should accept one of those offers. Douglas only has "blame" if his plan is bad or his execution of his plan is bad. Since none of us knows what his plan actually is for certain, any "blame" is ridiculous, especially with the certainty that it's being thrown around here, and with asinine comments that he should be fired by the Bye or go with Gase at the end of the season. What self-evaluation? How can he self-evaluate before he's even done anything in FA or the draft? That makes no sense. The bottom line is if you're honest with yourself, you know that you've been pissed at Douglas because he didn't draft another WR. Since then you've been looking for fault with Douglas, and have at times gone to ridiculous extremes to try to find fault. The roster is not great by any stretch of the imagination due to Mac's horrific drafting. It has been made worse by Gase not adapting his system to the talents of the players he does have, or not using players at all. It has probably been made worse by Gase saying he wants this player or that, or doesn't want this player or that. It has also been made worse by all the injuries, no OTAs, mini-camp, or preseason, and by Mosley opting out. All of that is out of Douglas' control. Douglas is supposed to support Gase in those situations where it is feasible. If you want to blame him for supporting and working with the HC, go right ahead, but that's lame. Sometimes a team gets worse before it can better. It's not ideal, but it largely happened due to a lot of things that were out of Douglas' control. Getting your panties in a wad because that happened is completely irrational. LOL I'm not projecting anything. You're the one who is being irrational with your impatience, judging him without knowing what his plan is, or seeing how the players he drafted contribute, and with your comments and contradicting yourself. I'm not jumping to conclusions, or going to extremes. I'm taking a reasoned, rational wait and see approach before I judge.
Well, somebody asked when was the last time an interim coach was named and I simply pointed it that it was a week ago in Atlanta. I'm not building a case for canning Gase on the biography of Morris, or anyone else. Gase needs to be fired yesterday because each day he remains the Jets become a worse organization. Again, firing him is addition by subtraction - he devalues the team every day he's here. It doesn't matter a whole lot who the placekeeper is - the purpose is to get rid of Gase and get someone in there to work with Darnold to find out what he is and to change the atmosphere surrounding the team. I believe the guys who claim Darnold is done and the guys who claim he's got a great future are wishing and hoping rather than dealing in the reality that we just don't know. I can't put any names on the situation but I believe I remember an outside coach coming into a team in a temporary situation - it's not that important. Some might come in to collect a short term paycheck and some might view it as a trial for future work. No team is going to fault a guy who does such a thing - it's a no lose proposition rather than the anchor you're characterizing it as. If a guy coming in insists on a long term contract, he has basically said he doesn't want the job and that's true in every business. Temporary jobs are temporary.
This is true, as for what we know about their contracts. What we don't know is which of them does the decision maker have confidence in today? I would hope that Douglas has the ear of Johnson and they have a plan going forward. But this is the New York Jets.
Why would they be paying him 25 Mill next year? When I looked at his contract, they owe him 10 Mill next year. They can sign Cam, Taylor, Winston or any other B Tier QB available. I dont believe there is a such thing as a generational QB right out of college. Jimmy G got to the SB last year, Tannehill got to the AFC champtionship, Tommy Brady won several, Nick Foles won a SB. Who are the favorites to win this year.. a QB drafted 10th overall, two drafted 32nd overall, one drafted 24th, one drafted 75th, and another drafted 199th. Look at all these top 5 drafted QBs not living up to the hype... Trubisky, Mariota, Winston, Mayfield, Wentz, Bortles... every year it's another one. I think Douglas is smart enough to notice that. He's going to get that top pick, and he's going to trade down.
couple of points on this - Rodgers is not a good exmaple - yes he was draft #24 but all the way up to the draft he was expected to go #1 and it was only a bizarre decision by the Niners that led to him falling, so he was always expected to be a top 5 pick top picks typically go to bad teams - so likely those players that were drafted high were/are 'better' players but they never get a chance to show it as they are destroyed by playing for bad teams and bad organisations whereas teams picking later are better managed and better set up for success so long as the QB is at least decent looking at the favourites Kansas City Chiefs: QB drafted #10 Baltimore Ravens: QB drafted #32 Seattle Seahawks: QB drafted #75 - always had talent but was the one to break the mould for short QBs Green Bay Packers: QB drafted #24 (but as noted above was always considered a top 3 talent). Pittsburgh Steelers: QB drafted #11 (but was expected to go at #4 if not for the weird Manning trade). Buffalo Bills: QB drafted #7 So off those all but two were either top 10 picks or generally considered to be top 10 picks that slid a little other than Jackson and Wilson - so it feels fair to say that you are much more likely to enjoy success with a highly regarded QB than without one
How about Tim Couch, David Carr, Michael Vick, Carson Palmer, Eli Manning, Alex Smith, Matt Ryan, Jamarcus Russell, Matthew Stafford, Sam Bradford, Cam Newton, Andrew Luck, Jameis Winston... All drafted #1. Peyton Manning probably has as much MVP's and Superbowl appearances as all of them combined.
Agreed and that's why I say the Jets need to fix their team, specifically the OL and DL and LB before getting their QB. Their defense has to be able to protect the QB as much as the OL.
The funniest part is keeping Adam Gase might be the best thing for this franchise right now LOL Does not take away from how fuckin piss poor our ownership is, but keeping Gase ensures we continue to lose and are that much closer to drafting Trevor Lawrence. A guy like Trevor Lawrence with a new coach and all the money and picks we have, can transform the franchise rather quickly.
You keep hiding behind your god awful GM.Please do not quote my posts ever again.I have zero respect for your bullshit any longer.Consider yourself on ignore
The bold all worked out pretty good for their franchises. Say what you want about Vick, but he found success and changed the NFL on the field and off for the Falcons. I do think the Buccaneers would've stayed with Jameis if Brady wasn't available too. Either way - you take the QB and live with it if he becomes Tim Couch. You don't pass him up and shrug your shoulders if he becomes Andrew Luck. That's an all-time franchise blunder.
it is not drafting that is the problem, it is coaching and culture that is the problem. It is why you see teams finish last one year and playoffs the next. The jets are not historically bad at drafting, the jets hav a historically bad culture that hires shitty coaches. The HC has to set the culture and be backed by the GM and ownership. Until they let the GM run the team and pick a head coach, they will always stink and every pick will be a bust. People believe players get drafted and are either great or not. That is not true, development has to happen at the pro level as well. That is where coaches make a difference.
I'd agree with you more if a lot of our draft picks left the Jets and found any sort of success. But we're also awful at developing talent and putting guys we draft in the right position to succeed. So I get what you're saying. Chad Hansen, ArDarius Stewart, Jace Amaro, Jordan Leggett, Lorenzo Mauldin, Devin Smith, Dexter McDougle, Stephen Hill, Shaq Evans, etc. Some of these guys didn't even get camp invites after we let them go...
There's another aspect to this that you're not talking about: Putting a top rated QB prospect on a bad team - i.e. using your top pick instead of trading it for more assets when you're clearly a talent starved team - may not make sense. It's "fool's gold". Kurt has a very strong case made that if the Jets get the #1 pick they should trade it for a king's ransom and use that haul to massively upgrade the talent on the team, meanwhile going with Darnold (if he's not ruined), or some other competent QB for a season or two, and then go all in on their FQB - I think the youngest Manning will be coming out about then, but there will likely be other "generational" QBs to choose from. You made the point yourself: "top picks typically go to bad teams - so likely those players that were drafted high were/are 'better' players but they never get a chance to show it as they are destroyed by playing for bad teams and bad organisations" As anxious as I am to see the Jets turn things around, and would love to see them have a great QB in place, the reality is that even if they get rid of Gase - and especially if they don't - Lawrence might just flounder and fail as so many other Jets QBs have. They have a well deserved reputation as "the team where QBs go to die". I think the best thing that could happen to the Jets now is for Darnold to return and lead them to a couple of improbable wins and take them out of the Lawrence Sweepstakes but leaving them in a spot where they might still attract some good trade back offers to add more talent. This would also serve to increase Sam's trade value if they want to consider that. There really is only way to rebuild a team that is so rotten at its core, and I think Douglas knew that coming in and why he insisted on a 6 year deal. I don't like it, but that's the reality.
There's a lot of truth in what you wrote, BUT...the Jets HAVE stunk historically at drafting, but I put a lot of the blame for this on the bad GMs/HCs that don't know what they're doing. Because up until Tannenbaum/Rex I never paid any attention to who their GM was I really can't remember who the GMs were over the years, but my guess is that most of them were not hired for their ability to assess and acquire talent, but more for their money management abilities, deferring to the HC as to what players to acquire. While a HC should definitely have input, the GM should have a blueprint that he uses to acquire players that fit that blueprint. Since Werblin and Ewbank the Jets have not had a blueprint. My belief/hope is that Douglas does, and we'll begin to see that this offseason of FA and draft. If we don't, if we see yet another patchwork of trying to fill holes, I'll be done with following this team until they get to their next SB or I'm dead, whichever comes first.
They have to make a decision this upcoming offseason as to whether they are going to pick up the 5th year option. If they do, that commits them to paying Sam $25 million that season (2022). To date, he has shown no real reason for the Jets to pick up the 5th year option. He is still making dumb rookie mistakes, making poor reads, poor decisions, his accuracy is off, and his footwork/fundamentals are awful at times. So if they don't pick up Sam's 5th year option, why would they pass up on Lawrence, when they know they only have Sam under contract for one more year, and Sam has shown no consistency or that he is someone they can rely on to build around? That would be irresponsible, negligent and a firable offense. You're entitled to believe what you want. Do you even follow college football and the draft? If you do, and you can't see that some QBs are head and shoulders above the rest, then I don't know what to tell you. If you can see that some are head and shoulders above the rest, then you know that QBs with those arms, skill sets, leadership ability, ability to read defenses and make good decisions, only come along about every 5-10 years, if that. Yes, the draft is a crap shoot and an inexact science. Players do bust. But some teams manage to have relatively few busts because they have prototype players that they look for who have certain physical and mental traits, who love the game, who want to be the best they can, and are hard workers. Also, usually those teams have CSs who adapt their schemes to fit the talents of the players they draft. Those types of players rarely bust. It's the players who while supremely physically talented, but who are content to try to get by on their natural ability, who don't have a burning desire to be the best they can, who don't have great work ethics, and don't have great football IQs who bust. Unless those types of players get drafted by the right team and have the right situation, they can bust pretty easily, and do. Too many HCs have rigid systems and they try to force square pegs into round holes. They don't adapt their systems to what players can do well. They and their GMS aren't good at evaluating players for scheme fit, or their ego makes them think they can get any player to fit their scheme. That's why so many players don't work out. Jimmy G was carried to the SB by Mostert and the Niner D. He has been pretty awful this year, and I believe they benched him or at least were talking about benching him. You don't do that if your QB is truly a FQB. Once Tannehill got away from Gase his talent started showing. NE has won so many SBs because they had Brady who is a true FQB. Every team missed on him. QBs like Aaron Rodgers, Lamar Jackson, Luck, Peyton Manning, John Elway give their team a huge edge and advantage that QBs like Bortles, Winston, Trubisky, Mariota, et al can only dream about. If we wind up with the #1 pick, Douglas may very well trade down rather than take Lawrence. If so, more than likely it will be a huge mistake that will wind up costing Douglas his career, and the Jets another decade of futility. It all starts and stops with the QB. If you don't have a FQB, you'll never win anything consistently. It's hard enough to do that even when one has a FQB. Without one, one is doomed to mediocrity or worse, and always trying to find one. Most of the best teams in the NFL (the Steelers, Packers, Colts for example) always get that QB. Look at all the excellent QBs the Steelers have had in their history. They've had some stinkers, but when they've had great QBs they are always one of the top teams. When they haven't had that QB, they've been competitive, but never won anything. The Packers have had Bart Starr, Favre, and now Rodgers. They also had some pretty good QBs in Lynn Dickey and Don Majkowski. The Colts had Johnny Unitas, Peyton Manning, and then Luck. They screwed up by not keeping a strong OL or they'd still have Luck. The Jets had Namath, and then a pretty good Ken O'Brien. Other than that, they haven't had much, and as a result, they haven't won anything. I'm sick of that. In today's NFL I'd rather have a great QB that gives us a chance to win any game, and who can make the game exciting and fun even in a loss, and have a lesser team, then have a stacked team and a mediocre QB. If that's what the Jets' plan or goal is, then I'm done. I'm sick and tired of seeing a Jets franchise that's 20 years behind the curve of the rest of the NFL.
There are various reasons for those QBs failing or having varying levels of success. Some weren't that good, just happened to be the best QB in that year's draft class and a team was desperate enough to take them. Some of them should never have been the #1 pick, but were due to the importance of the QB position, and the poor evaluation or coaching/development of their teams. Andrew Luck was a great QB. He was undone by a bad OL. David Carr was ruined by a bad OL. Matt Ryan made it to a SB and his team blew it. Can Newton led his team to a SB and they blew it. I never did think that Jameis Winston was worthy of being the #1 pick. I liked Mariota better, but he turned out just as bad as Winston. Bradford has had a lot of injuries. Eli wasn't as talented as Peyton and was basically drafted that high because of his last name. Russell should have never been drafted that high. There were all kinds of red flags about him. Stafford probably could have had success elsewhere. The Lions GMs have been almost as bad as the Jets.
That's just fine with me. You've shown yourself to be irrational, and a raving lunatic. Don't worry. I'm done with your dumbass.
