Patriots maybe cheating.......... again(still?)

Discussion in 'National Football League' started by FJF, Dec 9, 2019.

  1. Patriot

    Patriot Well-Known Member

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    Cam Newton has not done shit for the past several years. So what makes you think he is going to pick up a very complex offense and be successful right away? QBs like Brady don't grow on trees and will be very difficult to replace. All this media hype about Newton just shows the media doesn't know shit. Let see if I am right? The Patriots will be lucky to win 9 games this year not just because the loss of key players, but their schedule is very brutal.

    Trying to make the argument that other teams cheat does not address the issue at hand. Whether other teams cheat or not is not relevant to the question as to whether the Patriots cheated

    Did the Patriots cheat by videotaping the Bengals? As to Spygate 2, the NFL investigation stated that there was no evidence that the team was responsible for the actions of a stupid employee for Kraft productions. They just recently made their findings public and took over 6 months of investigation for this. So any reasonable person would conclude this was not the act of cheating by the team. When I say team, I mean football operations. Had another entity like the NFL Channel do this, I doubt very much this would be getting the publicity it has.

    Spygate 1 was cheating by the rules and the Patriots were punished accordingly. Any punishment could be argued as too soft or hard, so I will not get into this.

    In Deflategate, I don't think the NFL proved the Patriots cheated. All the NFL had to do was test the footballs in question by subjecting them to temperature differences. Something very easy to do to see what the contributions to ball pressure due to Ideal Gas Law would reveal. This would have put to rest the argument that the balls were tampered with or simply suffered the fate of the ideal gas law. Shit they could measure the footballs at half time during cold weather games these days to see what affect the ideal gas law would have.

    Shit, let me do some analysis here on the ideal gas law to see if it has any real effect here.

    The Ideal gas law states that PV=nRT where n and R are constants. This leads to the following equation. Note also T is in Kelvin, not centigrade or Fahrenheit.

    P = (nRT)/V

    Assuming the Volume stays pretty constant for the football.

    70 degrees Fahrenheit is about 294 Kelvin while 10 degrees Fahrenheit is 261 Kelvin. So to go from 294 to 261 degrees Kelvin, the temperature change is 11.2 %.

    The ideal gas law uses pascals as units for pressure.

    Since 1 psi = 6,894.75729 pascals, this means there is a constant ratio between pascals and psi. So we would expect a11.2 % drop in psi also.

    So if the footballs have a pressure between 12.5 to 13.5 psi, we would expect the pressure drop in this case of 12.5 psi to drop about 1.4. So your 12.5 psi football would be 11.1 with the ideal gas law factored in.

    This does not account for any errors in the measurement instruments. Not sure if the same exact gauge was used to measure the Patriots balls at halftime.

    Folks, please check my math in case I missed something.
     
  2. Jets_Grinch

    Jets_Grinch Well-Known Member

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    Spygate 1) league should have released the footage and put the too soft/too sever argument to bed.
    Spygate 2) It was a stupid mistake but a mistake non the less and after spygate one anyone associated with that franchise should have been smarter.
    Deflategate) Explain the nickname "the deflator", the text about Tom is getting watermelons if he doesn't get his sneakers, Tom destroying his phone and the bag of balls being taken into the bathroom when that was against protocal. Too many coincidences for a team that lost the benefit of the doubt with Spaygate 1.

    As for the Spygate 2 and deflategate, for years Pats and their fans have bragged BB has such control you can't sneeze at the other end of the facility without Bill knowing. You don't get to boast about absolute control then say "well how owuld he know" when sketchy shit happens.

    As for Cam, he is a different type QB but i think he'll plug in just fine. They switched up the Off multiple times as Tom's skills changed and they will do it again. I predict the 4 seed as they barely win the division and lose in the divisional round.
     
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  3. Patriot

    Patriot Well-Known Member

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    When it is all said and done, the psi of a football should not have been a 4 game suspension for Brady. Had this occurred on another team I doubt very much it would have received much attention from the NFL.

    As to the league releasing the footage, I never understood this stupid logic argued by Patriot haters. The videos were destroyed because their release would have possibly exposed the teams recorded to a tactical disadvantage. Prior to SPYGATE 1, the practice of recording the opponent sidelines was going on for years. When Goodell wrote the famous memo stating that this practice would no longer be tolerated, Belichick should have stopped the practice. If he had done this, you and I would not be discussing this topic. So it would make sense that Belichick probably had videos going back to when he was coaching the Giants defense. You are probably talking about years worth of videos whose recordings were not illegal at the time. So why does the release of the videos become such a necessary thing? Belichick admitted doing this practice for years as many other organizations have.

    As to Deflategate, I think Brady had the ball boy lower the pressure. My Ideal Gas Law calculations indicate that the balls should not be lower than 11.1 psi of pressure if the ball's original temperature was 70 degrees Fahrenheit (room temperature). This equipment violation which has happened before never got a player the same punishment. I always wondered how the NFL came up with the 12.5 to 13.5 psi requirement. Having said that, the NFL with a simple experiment of the balls could easily show whether the Ideal Gas Law was a possible explanation. If this rule is so important, why don't they measure the balls during a game to ensure proper inflation?

    As to Cam Newton, if you can run the ball as a QB this is great. But if you can not pass the ball effectively, you are not going to be successful in the NFL. Cam has a lot to prove with his ego, and I can see the Patriots allowing Cam to run the ball so much as to possibly jeopardize his career. Maybe your 4th seed prediction will come true assuming the NFL has a season because of COVID 19. But before making this prediction, I recommend you look at the Patriots schedule and let me know which 10 games they will win?
     
  4. Jets_Grinch

    Jets_Grinch Well-Known Member

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    Spygate 1) the crime wasn't that bad and no you cannot see the evidence. This is a pretty sketchy response from the league and is the root of why 31 fan bases think the Pats got off too easy. Also, a lot of people forget the offseason before it happened the Pats lead the charge to keep headsets off defensive players. Again not a good look for the Pats.
    Deflategate) There was enough circumstantial evidence, including brady destroying his phone after the league requested it which is considered an admission of guilt per the CBA (same as refusing a drug test), they had to do something. The NFL is civil court 51% guilty is guilty, not criminal where you need to be 100% guilty. Also, the league provided game balls until the early 2000's and this never would have happened until Brady and Manning pushed for the league to make the change. Again not a good look for brady (and yes i fully believe Manning was also fucking breaking the rules with his balls)

    I think Cam has way more left in the tank then people are giving him credit and with the pats season infront of me:
    Mia W
    @ Sea L
    LVR W
    @KC L
    Den W
    SF W
    @ Buf L
    @ NYJ L
    Bal L
    @ Hou W
    Ari W
    @ LAC W
    LAR W
    @ Mia L
    Buf W
    NYJ W
     
  5. It’s hard to listen to the excuses & the rationalizations any longer from New England fans. Not gonna lie that its made the NFL alot less enjoyable.

    Deny.Deflect.Rationalize.Victimize.Repeat.

    According to them Any NFL fan that simply pays attention to league sanctions is an idiot for not treating yourteamcheats.com(A site THEY created) as bible. Or you’re just jealous.
     
    #165 KurtTheJetsFan, Jul 10, 2020
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 10, 2020
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  6. Brook!

    Brook! Soft Admin...2018 Friendliest Member Award Winner

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    I missed football so much. Let NFL start. I won't mind watching the Pats cheat again. Let there be football God damn it,
     
  7. Countsnake

    Countsnake Member

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    I haven’t read one post denying or defending what the Pats have done.Rationalize absolutely!, nobody on this site has the balls to answer my question. I’ll ask again maybe you have some balls. Why do you only harp on the Pats and not other teams violations. You know the answer and it hurts to write it. You can do it.
     
  8. Brook!

    Brook! Soft Admin...2018 Friendliest Member Award Winner

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    When I drink, my wife blames me for not having any balls. I have diabetes, I have Hepatitis B carrier status. Heart problems, and fatty liver Phase 2. That's why she hates me when I drink and calls me balless. Do I count responding?

    We harp on Pats because you are our division rival blocking our play off appearance with your unfair advantages when you cheat. This should be enough for you.

    We harp on Pats but you are the only team called as Evil Empire by entire NFL fans.

    We harp on Pats because every fan base associates your team with cheating. Go ask NFC West fans team about the most cheating in history and they will all say Pats.

    You guys have a genius head coach. Brady is a hall of famer and one of the best QB's who played the game. No denying their greatness. But let me ask you. Why deny your team's cheating history brother?

    Why are you guys hated not only by Jets and AFC East fans but entire fan bases? Go read Cowboys or 49ers boards? I particularly like Redskins and 49ers because of their yellow-red colors due to Galatasaray my soccer team in Turkey. Their fan bases hate you too. So what do you say about that?

    Pats are cheats. Universal fact. Deal with it.
     
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  9. Countsnake

    Countsnake Member

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    Ok. I’ll write It again for you. I don’t and never have denied or defended the Pats. As usual you skirt your answer. WHY don’t you mention or harp on other teams violations?. And please don’t act like you root for a team that plays and abides to the NFL rules. I’ll give you another time to answer the question, NOT a stupid cop out, your team are cheaters,everyone hates you,fans are the worst.blahblahblah. I would like to know why you don’t seem to care about any other team?? I get we are your rivals .duh. But that is a BS lame crap. Unfair advantage. I believe after the Pats were made to use properly inflated balls in the second half vs the Colts. And they put up bigger numbers in the second half. And taping the sidelines how exactly does that give you a advantage? And just curious why you think every coach in the NFL hold something over there mouth when they call in plays from the sidelines? Would love to read your answer.
     
  10. ive had this same tireless argument w you on this site & your kind over & over again. Im not engaging it any longer. You’re entitled to your opinion.But really at the end of the day You’ll say anything to defend your team & deflect their perils. So be it. Theres literally nothing i could say to change your mind or lead to any sort of functional stimulating conversation.But you arent here for that are you?
     
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  11. Patriot

    Patriot Well-Known Member

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    I am sort of confused by your "Spygate 1) the crime wasn't that bad and no you cannot see the evidence.".

    I stated that the Patriots did violate the rules here that were clearly stated by the Goodell memo. What I don't understand is the argument for the videos. So why are the videos important and need to be released to the public? Again I am trying to understand your argument. What purpose would the videos serve?

    When it comes to the Patriots it seems the facts are always overlooked. The Patriot's violation at the time was videotaping the opponent from their sidelines. Had they done this somewhere else perhaps, by the rules at that time it would have been perfectly legal. This fact seems to be overlooked all the time. I am not sure what the exact rules are today, thus my statement for at that time. By videotaping from the sidelines, one could argue, the coaching staff could get real-time information from the opponent's sideline. But if you have a scout with binoculars peering at your opponent's sideline then sending messages to you it is still ok? This makes no logical sense to me. So just like baseball, it is ok to steal signs as long as you do it a certain way?

    At that time: The "Game Operations Manual" states that "no video recording devices of any kind are permitted to be in use in the coaches' booth, on the field, or in the locker room during the game." The manual states that "all video shooting locations must be enclosed on all sides with a roof overhead."

    As to your prediction, there is no way the Patriots beat the 49ers and the Texans. By the way, they lost to the Texans last year, remember? So this would make them 8-8 and not winning the AFC East if I agree with the rest of your prediction.

    What is weird about your prediction is you have the Patriots going 3-3 against the AFC EAST and then going 7-3 against other teams. The AFC EAST is considered one of the weakest divisions in the NFL, hence you might want to reconsider your prediction.
     
  12. Jets_Grinch

    Jets_Grinch Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sold on Houston and last year is exactly that, last year. Upsets happen and the Niners are travelling across the country which with Covid will likley lead to them leaving a day later and travel hurts teams.
    As for the AFC East, both the Jets and the Fins are improved and the Bills favored by many to win the division. The days of the Pats being almost handed 5-1 in division are gone. And this is a prediction, so much can happen between now and then. Like MONO as we found out the hard way. Between Sam being sick and CJ going down early in the 2nd half of week 1, the entire season changed.

    The video is important because time and again i have heard Pats fans state the violation wasn't that bad, they were just filming from the wrong location. You want to tell me Bill just didn't know the rulebook very well? The fact Mangini warned him not to film and they did it anyways shows just how arrogant the Pats are towards league office. The league destroying the footage of their most recent champion breaking a rule (in a way that would have been less affective with headsets on the D which they pushed not to happen) stinks of a cover up. Did they have video of the Rams Super Bowl walk through as they were accused? How bad would the league look if this was the case? And it's not okay for a scout to relay messages which is exactly why you can't use cellphones on the bench. And yes the Ravens got off too easy on that one as well.
     
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  13. Patriot

    Patriot Well-Known Member

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    It is funny you mentioned Mangini. When Bill ignored Mangini's warning, it was disrespect towards Mangini, not the league office. There was definitely bad blood between the two at the time. Belichick was pissed that Mangini went to the Jets. Any team would have been acceptable except for the Jets. Most people think Mangini got the upper hand, but the real truth is Mangini was punished more than Belichick. After the Jets unfairly let Mangini go, he was blackballed by the rest of the league for being a rat. I don't think to this day Mangini wanted the confiscation of the video camera to go to the league, but zealous folks in the Jets organization couldn't help themselves.

    I think Mangini was never given a fair chance by the Jets especially when Favre was thrown in. I think had the Jets given Mangini a chance, he would have built a very competitive Jets team that would have challenged the Patriots for many years. Mangini climbed up the ranks in the Patriot's organization faster than anyone. Mangini probably violated some old boy rule that you and I are unaware of concerning Spygate. I hope someday he is given a chance again, but he probably will not.

    Are you really going to bring up having a video of the Rams Super Bowl walkthrough? The writer of that story admitted that this was bogus. If you don't believe me, look it up yourself.

    Whether the Patriots are big or little cheaters is not the real reason they have been successful. During the winning drive in their last SB victory, they ran the exact same play 3 times in a row until they scored. I am pretty sure the Rams defense knew what was coming and they still couldn't stop it. During the so-called Deflategate game, you or I could have run for over 100 yards that game for the Patriots because they manhandled the Colts defense.

    As to arrogance, winning teams do tend to be arrogant. Something I have always disliked about sports.

    As to the subject of cheating, because football is such a military warlike game, I think this lends itself into deceitful practices. They say MLB use to be an honorable game until Ty Cobb showed up. Growing up I was taught that cheating in school would result in grave punishment. Perhaps I was nieve to believe that in adult life there was no cheating until the reality of adulthood hit me. Life is unfair and it always has been unfair. Mankind has been dishonest and cheating since the beginning of time. So I don't expect it to end now or in the near future. I think it is wise to point out any irregularities in the way the Patriots win games. But when the fixation is only on them and nobody else, then I will argue that delusion has unfortunately taken over.

    The Patriot's dynasty like all dynasties will come to an end. The next team that takes the mantle of winning dynasty will probably have some skeletons in their closet also.
     
  14. jetophile

    jetophile Bruce Coslet's Daughter

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    Do people parse bank robbery like this? Well, he was punished for it, but the bank is insured by the FDIC so I don't really know what your point is . . . ; and he didn't really hold a gun on the teller because the angle clearly shows it was pointed at the COUNTER. He walked out, rather than ran out, so it can be argued he wasn't absconding. Besides that wasn't a bag of money, it was a sack lunch. The surveillance video, upon enlargement, looks like there could be hershey bars for dessert in there based on the rectangular shape of the contents of the bag, not money, hershey bars it can be inferred to be later shared with FRIENDS, FRIENDS, what accomplices? There is no case because eyewitness testimony is highly unreliable, the rest is hearsay, and the manager of the bank had the tapes of the crime destroyed after concluding there was nothing to see here. So, since banks rip off customers all the time with high fees and shitty CD rates, no robbery has occurred even though it occurred.
     
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  15. Countsnake

    Countsnake Member

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    Your right it is tireless when one of the participants won’t answer a simple question, Let’s try one more time. I am not defending what the Patriots have done! I’m not denying what the Patriots have done! Hell i’m not even saying that they haven’t pulled shit that nobody knows about! But those are not my questions, my questions how come you barely mention and take the no big deal approach to other teams violations? Question #2 Why do you think that the rest of the NFL is clean and play by the rules? Now let’s review shall we. I’m not stating that what the Patriots have done is ok because other teams are doing similar violations.(including your Jets) Im not excusing the Patriots. I’m not stating that there punishments were to serve. And I also don’t think that the NFL has it in for the Patriots. There it’s all in print for you to read again. Now your turn in the conversation. Start by answering my two questions. I promise I will answer any questions you ask of me. But remember we don’t answer a question with a question.
     
  16. jetophile

    jetophile Bruce Coslet's Daughter

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    Because they're serial offenders. If something even mildly nefarious happens, who is always first and foremost in the conversation? The Jaguars?
     
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  17. joe

    joe Well-Known Member

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    . .TL; DR
    .
     
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  18. ConcordeChops

    ConcordeChops 2018 International Poster Award Winner

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    This is what I've never understood. You didn't need to cheat, you were already dominant.

    I mean, taping the Chiefs, sure, but the Bengals? Really? Cheating in a 45-7 Colts game? Videotaping the 4-12 Jets?
     
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  19. Ptflea2

    Ptflea2 Well-Known Member

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    Not really. He was hired the following year as the head coach for the Browns. He was also hired by San Fran as an assistant coach for 3 seasons.
     
  20. K'OB

    K'OB 2021 TGG Fantasy Football Champ

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    Because we detest the cheating C*nts with a passion and if you're one of them then sod off to your own fansite.
     

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