Sam Darnold

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by championjets69, Jul 8, 2020.

  1. SoylentGreen

    SoylentGreen Well-Known Member

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    KC is better in every conceivable way on offense.
    Their offensive line, WR’s, TE are tops in the league as a whole and they run a simplistic offense that is more about scheme / solid Oline play, and the ability to win one on one (at every skill position) and a Qb who can bide time and make a lot of nice off balance throws (to his 1st or 2nd read... never really had to go further than that + when in real trouble, he was able to throw to the best TE in the league whether open or not)...

    Not sure you are aware, but the Jets really suck + and don’t have any of those elements.

    You swap Qb’s last year and Darnold (KC) vs Mahomes (Jet) throws more td’s, yards and wins more games...

    It’s a very lazy argument to say Mahomes blah, blah....

    Yeah, he’s better but who cares.
     
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  2. TonyFtLaud

    TonyFtLaud Well-Known Member

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    I'm well aware of this teams shortcomings , I'm also aware of Darnolds. It's just as lazy an argument to say Darnold would have been better than Mahomes if you switched teams.
    Mahomes is a better QB than Darnold, or any other QB at the present time.
     
  3. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Well-Known Member

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    I don't know how you can say that with certainty. It's impossible to truly say. Sam gets to go to Andy Reid and that Chiefs offense, learn a year under Alex Smith. Mahomes gets to have Jeremy Bates as his OC, Bowles as his HC, then change it to Gase in 2019, all with a bad o-line and a lack of weapons? Mahomes might be good with the Jets, hard to say, but Darnold would likely be having much more success in KC.
     
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  4. SOJAZ

    SOJAZ Well-Known Member

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    Exactly...
     
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  5. TonyFtLaud

    TonyFtLaud Well-Known Member

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    I say it because I'm convinced Mahomes is a far superior QB. We would also have had 3 additional second round picks to add O line and or playmakers. Mahomes throws players open far more often than Darnold. Alex Smith was the same. Mahomes makes the players around him better. So far Sam has not. Maybe he has a breakout year this year, hopefully he does, but so far he is not in the same tier of QBs as Mahomes.
     
    #45 TonyFtLaud, Jul 8, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2020
  6. jetophile

    jetophile Bruce Coslet's Daughter

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    "I miss the days when we choked in big games." What's that smell? Signature material.

    It's not even a matter of choking in big games. It's a matter of just beating who you should beat and suffer less later. What a concept; but no! Suffer all the more about the Jets coming up big when you just know they're coming out flatter than the penny you put on the railroad tracks. They just couldn't beat a JV team or three earlier the year. Choo choo!
     
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  7. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Well-Known Member

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    I'm one of those "team sport", "situation" and "guys around you" type of people. That is why the Brady-Manning argument never made sense to me. Peyton Manning is a far superior player and talent, Brady was just in the far better situation in a team sport. I think Aaron Rodgers has been one of the best QB's of the last decade, despite not winning or getting to any Super Bowls since his first. Sam Darnold has been in a literally horrendous situation since joining the NFL, Mahomes has been in a literally perfect situation since he entered the NFL.

    You just don't know how things would turn out otherwise. If Allen was drafted by the Cardinals, his career could be over like Rosen too. It's more complicated than actual QB talent and ability. Patrick Mahomes seems to be the kind of player that would have succeeded anywhere. Like Peyton Manning or Aaron Rodgers, but we don't know for sure. I think it is safe to say Sam would have succeeded in Kansas City though. Maybe not an MVP or Super Bowl title by now, but who knows? I think it is fair to say Mahomes would have none of that if the Jets drafted him. At least not yet.
     
  8. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

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    The insert X quarterback into Y quarterback's scenarios have no definitive answer. They're fun to speculate about but it's especially difficult to try to make those comparisons to quarterbacks with an incredible amount of success with Mahomes.

    Could some other cold weather quarterbacks like Aaron Rodgers, Favre, Roethlisberger, Eli and then even down to the second tier of guys like McNabb, young Carson Palmer, etc. maybe have won a couple SB's with those early 2000's Patriots teams? Yeah probably. Drew Bledsoe likely would've nabbed one too. But that doesn't take away from Brady's greatness.
     
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  9. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, agreed with all of that. Especially in the last 10 years of Brady's career, he has proven he is a great QB. Now he is playing at an elite level in his 40's. That is crazy and can't be contributed to Belichick or the team around him.
     
  10. JerzeJets

    JerzeJets Active Member

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    Apparently not considering nothing you just posted is english.
     
  11. TonyFtLaud

    TonyFtLaud Well-Known Member

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    Were not debating between 2 HOF QBs like Manning and Brady. Were talking about 2 kids who have started 2 seasons. If you objectively watch both play theres no way you draw the conclusion that Darnold is as good as Mahomes. Just watch the ball placement , how Mahomes routinely throws his recievers open vs how often Darnolds recievers have to adjust to the ball, stop and wait for a ball, recieve a ball near their knees . Darnold has flashed the abilities that Mahomes displays regularly and may reach that level, but is not there.
    The QB still has to Deliver the ball, Brady did so and more often than not, was working with lesser recievers, Manning was a master of deciphering the D, and changing plays. Different skill sets, both great QBs.
    As for Rodgers, hes his own worst enemy and is the reason he only has one ring.
    So I'll ask you this. If Sam is as good or better than Mahomes, why do you say not an MVP or Super Bowl title? I would think if hes as good or better he would have accomplished at least as much no?
     
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  12. SoylentGreen

    SoylentGreen Well-Known Member

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    The difference is that a lazy Darnold argument (as well as anything pro jet) is acceptable on a Jets fan forum...
     
  13. SoylentGreen

    SoylentGreen Well-Known Member

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    Still arguing this?

    One guy is in a perfect situation with the fastest player in football demanding double teams, a TE who demands double teams, a top RB in 2018 (when he threw 50), WR corp with depth, a top 5 Oline and arguably the best offensive minded + play calling coach in football.

    You want to place all the success on Mahomes...
    And you want to place all the failure on Darnold.

    No one is making the claim that Darnold is better right now.
     
  14. TonyFtLaud

    TonyFtLaud Well-Known Member

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    Let's be real, you just cant articulate an defense for what you claimed.
    The basis of a forum is rational discussion of the forum topics. This topic is about San Darnold and his pending extension next season. Is he worth the 1/2 billion Mahomes just received. At this point, hes not. That's not anti Jets or anti Darnold that's my opinion. If you disagree, debate it with your reason. Other wise stick to the thread debating what size gold jackets do we order for each of the 9 draft picks.
     
  15. TonyFtLaud

    TonyFtLaud Well-Known Member

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    Not arguing, discussing with TDK.
    Not claiming Mahomes is single handedly responsible for KC's success or blaming Darnold for the Jets failures.
    Again this is about a head to head comparison of 2 players and if one deserves the same contract as the other next season.
    I have said Darnold would have more success in KC and Mahomes less here.
    But I do believe Mahomes would have led the Jets to the playoffs last year, and dont believe Darnold would have had the same success as Mahomes in KC.
    I believe Mahomes is the better QB. Has more arm talent and at this moment in their respective careers I'd the better QB.
    If you want to debate this, give me your reasoning as to why you believe Darnold is as good or better.
    I'm open to hearing your views, but not interested an argument because your upset that I don't look at everything through Gotham green lenses.
     
  16. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Well-Known Member

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    Because you can't properly predict how things would be. Also, I never said Sam was as good or better than Mahomes. I responded to your original post that was If they switched spots, Mahomes would still outperform Sam. I don't agree with that. I just said Sam would have much more success than he currently has with the Jets, if he was on the Chiefs. Mahomes would have much less success than he has on the Chiefs, if he was on the Jets. It is a team sport and that is why. It is a simple philosophy. We have no clue how Mahomes would have been coached by the Jets, but likely poorly. Sam, would have all the proper guidance from Andy Reid, etc.
     
  17. TonyFtLaud

    TonyFtLaud Well-Known Member

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    I agree that its impossible to predict the hypothetical situations where you switch QBs and was replying to a post that was doing just that in an attempt to equalize the two QBs. It's pure speculation. I do feel Mahomes would have out performed Darnold had the teams been switched just watching their play , ball placement and delivery speed. I think he is that much further ahead at this point . But in fairness, Darnold could have made major improvements, especially with his mechanics having had a year to sit and learn and with better coaching . ( I'm sure someone will consider this Gase bashing and chime in ) How much improvement can be attributed to Mahomes year sitting we will never know, that's a whole different debate.
    We are in agreement at least that Darnold would have better #s in KC and Mahomes lesser #s in NY. Just not how much better or worse , but again its purely speculative.
    I dont mean any of it as a knock on Darnold, my Hope's are in 15-20 years from now the narrative is who was better , Darnold , Brady, Manning or Montana.
     
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  18. dmw

    dmw Well-Known Member

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    The Chiefs can be beaten. San Francisco choked in the SB. They couldn't move the ball in the 4th QTR. If they had, they would have won the game.
     
  19. dmw

    dmw Well-Known Member

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    Don't get so down. Remember that Sanchez beat Brady in the playoffs.
     
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  20. SoylentGreen

    SoylentGreen Well-Known Member

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    I don’t think anyone here is arguing who is better at this time or that Mahomes doesn’t deserve his contract or that he isn’t a top 3 Qb in the league.

    All people have said is that Mahomes would not have the same success with the Jets that he has had with KC.

    As far as Mahomes vs Darnold as a Jet... well a serious argument can in fact be made. Mahomes has been running the same sort of air raid style of offense since High School to College and yes now in the Pro’s... KC offense is a college offense...

    If he came into the league 10 years ago, he would have struggled transitioning to the pro game as Qb’s were taking snaps from under center, footwork was different and Qb’s had to actually read a defense, go through progressions. So much used to be put on the Qb’s shoulders.

    That’s why I sort of have a lot more respect for the Qb’s of old vs. this new generation of qb...

    Unfortunately, that’s the style of offense Gase runs... it’s antiquated to extent and puts everything on the Qb’s shoulders to put the team in the right play.

    Could Mahomes master a Gase offense? Maybe, but it would be a lot more foreign to his knowledge base (remember he has done nothing but air raid) than even it is for Darnold, who actually has been exposed to more conventional NFL concepts during college...
     

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