Not Exactly A Ringing Endorsement of Plan B

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by RonPi, Jul 3, 2020.

  1. RonPi

    RonPi Well-Known Member

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    "...when they failed to come to an agreement at the last minute with Matt Rhule over choosing an offensive coordinator, the Jets' Plan B was to hire Adam Gase."

    "On the other hand, though, there was invariably at least one or two plays per game for the Jets where I was either sure the receiver had run the wrong route or Gase was trying to get Darnold to throw an interception. It happened frequently enough that it couldn't be the former. More than any offense I can remember, the Jets would end up with three or four receivers occupying the same small area of the field, making it impossible for Darnold to make a throw without risking an interception."

    https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id...st-chance-progress-report-jets-qb-expect-2020

    Ron
     
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  2. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Well-Known Member

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    You focused on the small Gase part of a large, mostly negative, Sam Darnold article. I don't agree with much of what that guy wrote. It is as if he wrote all of that by just reading stats on a piece of paper and not actually watching Sam play. The only game he watched was the 33-0 Ghosts game. I do agree that Gase should have pulled Sam, for his own good, from that game. It was ugly. I also do blame Gase for not helping Sam adjust, and of course, the terrible o-line. It made Sam look much worse than he actually is. Saying 2020 is Sam's last chance is ridiculous though. I mean, the only way that would happen is if he is dreadful, which he won't be. Using his 2018 and 2019 stats to project 2020 is not smart either.

    Gase's stats make sense too. He was at the top of the league with the best Quarterback in NFL History in Peyton Manning, he was slightly above average with a slightly above average QB in Jay Cutler, and he has been terrible with all these back-ups and a young Sam with mono since 2017. Gase is capable but he needs the right QB and team around him. I think Sam can be that QB and Douglas can build the right team. Thanks for posting!
     
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  3. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    When I saw the link and that the article is on ESPN, I figured it was a Cimini hatchet job. As I started reading it, I would have sworn that it was except that I saw Bill Barnwell's name as the author.

    It's an interesting article, and contains some interesting facts I didn't know like Sam losing a toenail in the Patriots game(his first after missing 4 games with mono), then the following week sprained his thumb. It is overwhelmingly negative, however. As I was reading all the stats to back up his contention how bad Sam is, I began thinking, "Is this dumbass seriously going to dump on Sam this whole article and not even mention how truly awful the OL and receiving corps were?" IMO those factors should have been mentioned first. They would undermine any QB young or old. When he finally did mention those factors, he only gave them brief lip service. He then stupidly says that Sam was great under pressure at USC because he had a QB rating of 59!!!! Just because other collegiate QBs were a lot worse doesn't mean that Sam was great. His QB rating still was incredibly bad, and that's with less complex and less talented collegiate defenses. NFL defenses are a totally different level of difficulty. He doesn't really mention or discuss the fact that Sam has played in two different offenses, with two different OCs and two different HCs in his first two seasons. How is any young QB supposed to find his stride in those circumstances, especially when the OL and the receiving corps suck? It would be one thing if he had received excellent coaching, but it doesn't appear that he has. If he has received some good coaching, it has been spotty at best, or he isn't able to process it. I don't think it's the latter however.

    IMO Sam's injuries are not concerning. When you play behind as bad an OL as Sam has, you're going to get hit and hurt. None of his injuries were really serious.

    Asking if it's time to give up on Sam is just flat out stupid imo. Sam has had the deck stacked against him since being drafted by the Jets. Maybe Aaron Rodgers would have been able to succeed in these circumstances, or a few HOF QBs, but otherwise, I don't think any QB would have succeeded in these circumstances and been able to turn the Jets into winners. Barnwell's heavy use of all the metrics/stats is also dumb imo. They simply reflect the lack of consistency in coaching and approach, and the bad players that have surrounded Sam on offense. There's no way his stats could have been good or any better under these circumstances. In some ways, it's remarkable that they're as good as they are.

    I'm not excusing Sam. He has areas in which he has to improve markedly. His decision making (including reading the D?), getting the ball out sooner, and connecting on long passes, and perhaps more. But his OL the last two seasons has been one of the worst in the history of the NFL, and his receiving corps (including TEs and RBs) has been pretty awful as well. I'd like to see him show more competitive fire and passion. He often looks too laid back imo. I'd like to see him get in player's faces, do a little shouting, and get them fired up. To his credit, Barnwell did point out that Sam is still very young and until this season, the Jets (Mac) had done nothing to surround Sam with talent either at the skill positions or at the OL positions. While Bell was a great RB and great receiver, he hadn't played in 2 years when he came to the Jets and he is older. Mac had drafted a couple of TEs and WRs, but with the exception of Herndon and Andersono, they were complete busts. He also mentions that the WRs couldn't run their routes properly or the right routes. He doesn't mention how they had trouble getting open, even with Gase running picks and designing plays to help them get open. He also doesn't mention Robby's low catch percentage, and how his route tree was limited, or how he didn't lay out for the ball or drops. He doesn't mention Gase's play calling very much, and the two times he did were the opening game scripts and how Gase has concepts that he seeks to establish, and rarely goes away from those, citing one time where he tried a screen and go late in a game, where Sam missed the throw.

    If Sam was playing for Andy Reid, either of the Harbaughs, or a number of other OCs or HCs in the NFL, I think we would have seen a much better, and very different Sam. We'd see a much more confident Sam. Confidence comes from within, but it's also deepened/strengthened for a QB when he has a quality OL in front of him; has WRs with which he has developed chemistry, who run the right routes/are good route runners, get open, and catch the ball; adept play calling by the OC, and get good/great coaching not only during the week, but on the sideline during games; and the success that comes from all those parts working together well. This season will be the first time that Sam has played in the same offense for two consecutive seasons in the NFL. He still will have very few of the same receiving targets, and with no mini-camps or OTAs, it will be difficult to establish chemistry with these receivers. Mims is new and a rookie. Perriman is new. Doctson is new. Gore is new. Perine is new and a rookie. White and Berrios are scrubs. He had Herndon two years ago and for a cup of coffee last season. He developed chemistry with Ryan Griffin, Jamison Crowder, and Le'Veon Bell last season. The deck is still stacked against him. We'd all better hope that Gase works out this season. If not, Sam will be playing in his 3rd different offense in 4 seasons next year.
     
    #3 NCJetsfan, Jul 3, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2020
  4. joe

    joe Well-Known Member

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    .
    TL;DR
    .
     
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  5. BrowningNagle

    BrowningNagle Well-Known Member

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    its because the Anderson ran the wrong route so much
     
  6. Unhappyjetsfan

    Unhappyjetsfan Well-Known Member

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    Darnold was great in college under pressure. USC's offensive line was worse than the Jets offensive line his last season. Every third down was like a jailbreak for the defensive line. It's what convinced me he was going to be a good NFL quarterback - he was able to move in the pocket fluidly while still keeping his focus downfield. The only other QB that I saw who was better at that was Joe Montana.
     
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  7. rammagen

    rammagen Well-Known Member

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    Look we all know the negatives on Gase I don't like for the simple reason he has not had much if any success without a HOF qb. Never mind the reported issues with players and the way he sulks on the side lines which we saw last season. To simply blame the oline also falls onto gase because as the coach it is his job to help everyone on the team, if the oline is having issues then you need to adjust blocking schemes which he did but to little to late in the season. For all the poeple who saw a team go 7 and 9 I saw team that was at best in consonant and lost to two teams that were previously win-less. He was out coached in those games.

    To me gase is a person who built his career on denver and has not had much if any success without Manning as qb.

    I have more hope for the gm as he came in and started to fix the oline as a priority. Because of this Sam should improve but the question is will gase improve? You are what your record is and Gase is a loosing coach whose is supposedly an offensive genius and his offenses have been in the bottom 5 of the league the last 4 yrs. If you o I performed like this then we should be fired why he should he be held to another standard. And no you can't throw out Miami's performance either because he was bad there too.
     
  8. SOJAZ

    SOJAZ Well-Known Member

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    I couldn't agree more... I think we will see ... I have no faith that he will improve because he seems to be too stubborn and only changed when Sam confronted him abut the O. So we shall see ... if the team O is as dysfunctional as last year and can not execute and is mired in the bottom of the league then he should be fired.
     
  9. Zach

    Zach Well-Known Member

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    Obviously, the fact that Sam was playing on a gimped system somehow flew over the head of this moron.

    He even acknowledges that [multiple receivers were spotted in a small area of the field] MULTIPLE TIMES. That's how bad Gase's system is. Now that means Sam is terrible because he is playing in a garbage system? Is that a logical conclusion anyway? He also acknowledges how Tannehill came into life after leaving the evil clutch of Gase system. Just what the fuck? Having played in this total shitstorm of a system is a reason to give up on Sam? HELLO????

    Seriously, garbage system + no OL protection + bare minimum level of skill players will kill ANY quarterback. Don't ask me. Ask Tannehill. And that's Sam's fault, amirite? At least Sam made himself look half decent even with all the atrocities around him. That's a reason to give up on him? Really?
     
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  10. BacktoQueens

    BacktoQueens Well-Known Member

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    Best young Jets QB since Pennington saddled with the worst OC since Hackett.

    Jets love repeating history, and really know how to mess up a potentially good situation.
     
  11. azhar80

    azhar80 Well-Known Member

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    Seriously Ryan Tanehill?

    100% yes his #s were better but he had the best run game and a much better Oline than hes probably ever had. To top it off he was finally healthy!
    I dont buy that Tanehill is much better now.
    His playoff #s are not impressive:
    Comp Att 36
    Comps 60
    Comp %60.00
    Yards 369
    TDs5
    Int 1

    He did go 2-1 in the playoffs, but he had 2 games in which he completed less than 55% of his passes, but still won those games. He attempted less than 15 passes in both of the playoff wins btw.

    In the game he lost, he comp 67% of his passes but lost the game. This let's me know, that Titans won the games based on defense and Running.

    So let's keep this Gase hate fair.
     
  12. sec314

    sec314 Well-Known Member

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    I'll judge Sam with a better OL, better WR and a full year playing under Gase's system. He's gonna be a top 10 QB for the next 10 years and win us some Super Bowl's. We have owners that will spend, finally a great GM, an offensive head coach and a great Defensive coordinator. Its gonna take more then one year to improve the roster after 5 years of MAC. Jet fans want Gase's head but that's not the issue, its the talent and one off season can't fix it all. Super Bowl by 2022. What's another year of waiting after waiting 40 already.
     
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  13. JetsAreBadForYourHealth

    JetsAreBadForYourHealth Well-Known Member

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    Honestly history has been a bit kinder to Hackett then when he was in the moment. I didn't like Hacketts conservatism when it was happening. But that team had a good line, great backs, an accurate, genius, but weak armed QB. Those Jets teams never shot themselves in the foot, never turned the ball over. They played to their strengths always.

    I don't love Hackett but Hackett's Jets offense while he was here made the playoffs 3 years out of 4. We couldn't gunsling with Chad. It was impossible
     
  14. HomeoftheJets

    HomeoftheJets Well-Known Member

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    I agree Gase is offensive...
     
  15. sec314

    sec314 Well-Known Member

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    Ha. Lets hope he's offensive to the Bills
     

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