This Joe D guy doesn’t look half bad, eh?

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by Brook!, May 23, 2020.

  1. LF911SC

    LF911SC Well-Known Member

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    Except Macc, for all his faults didnt continually draft one position group/position That wasn't and of course isn't a philosophy that should be taken. I said he sucked and had to go. But I'm not going to start making stuff up to add to the ledger. That EDGE, one I wanted, didnt come without questions. He wasn't a slam dunk, wasn't Bosa. He isnt as good in coverage and the run as he is as a pass rusher. Lets not forget where this slam dunk player was taken, he wasn't even the next DL taken. There were questions. We do this all the time, forget all the cons when a player works out. And so far he sure has, while the more highly rated player hasn't shown yet.
     
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  2. mrjet80

    mrjet80 Well-Known Member

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    No probably not as much but the lack of an outside pass rusher is so glaring and has been for many many years. The Jets go through these DTs as if they’re changing underwear - it’s ridiculous. I bet part of Mac’s strategy was Q would eventually replace Leo. Drafting to replace possible holes rather than gaping holes isn’t the way to go.
     
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  3. LF911SC

    LF911SC Well-Known Member

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    In 5 years he drafted two DT. Hardly a trend. You would never even been having this conversation if QW and Allen played as predicted they would/.
     
  4. K'OB

    K'OB 2021 TGG Fantasy Football Champ

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    Go on then I'll bite a little :)

    1 Because one poster has made it a WR v OL battle for over a year now and posts constantly about the need for WR's, people then feel the need to apply balance.

    2 Well, hopefully, McCown managed to have a career year with some shit WR's that were schemed open, especially Robby, damn those haters.

    3 Is there anything more true than this sentence

    4 Well, I don't know for other teams but when a teams OL is as bad as the Jets OL, an OL that hasn't had a decent draftee for over 10 years, it does get kind of important in folks minds, especially when Q3 is applied.

    5 It was passable enough in that timescale that the shittest QB around broke a lot of QB records for the Jets, making two slightly above average WR's look just shy of top class, is this not the proof that you seek?

    6 Not sure about worse in the NFL but yes we could certainly have improved on them that's for sure and that is the crux of this entire back and forth, nobody is in disagreement with you about our need for good WR's, just that most think we needed to fix the OL first, hopefully, this has been achieved and set in place for a number of years and we can then draft us a good WR prospect next year.

    Have a nice evening Kurt, don't let this WR thing eat you up, we could be on the cusp of a franchise-changing moment inside the next 2-3 seasons, don't spoil it for yourself pal :D
     
  5. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    First of all, I didn't make anything up.

    Secondly, Allen is a better all-around player than Bosa. Bosa can't drop into coverage for spit, and he's not as good as Allen vs the rushing attack. He was seemingly better than Allen coming out of college as a pass rusher, but I'm not even sure of that. I've never understood all the love that Bosa has gotten on this site. Allen was a slam dunk imo, and I'd rather have him any day than Bosa.
     
  6. mrjet80

    mrjet80 Well-Known Member

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    I was referring to the Jets in general in regards to the drafting of DTs.

    I don’t know about that in regards to your last sentence.....I was pulling for Allen at the time. A lot of us were ...
     
    #86 mrjet80, May 24, 2020
    Last edited: May 24, 2020
  7. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    I'm not convinced that if he had missed on Mims that Douglas would have taken another WR. I was excited about Douglas' hire and believed that he was going to be a great GM for us. That belief has all but been shattered. He could still prove to be a very good or great GM, as I certainly like most of the other moves he has made, but not taking a 2nd WR, really has me wondering.
     
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  8. LF911SC

    LF911SC Well-Known Member

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    If youre saying that Macc drafted one position only, well that's wrong.
    Allen isnt and never was considered a better player than Bosa, now you are making things up. Allen isnt a better player today, never has been. And Allen the slam dunk is well, wrong, he came with questions.
     
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  9. LF911SC

    LF911SC Well-Known Member

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    OK, but that's different and shouldn't be put on Macc and more than it should be put on Douglas.

    I get the Allen love, I wanted him myself. Doesnt mean that QW cant contribute and be a valuable player to the Jets
     
  10. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    I didn't say that Allen was rated or considered a better player than Bosa by others. I said that I thought he was a better player, and he is better imo. You and others had questions on Allen, I didn't. I may have not been clear, but I made nothing up. I don't make shit up like some posters here. That's dishonest, and I'm not going to lie to win some discussion on the internet with someone I don't even know. I post only facts and my opinion.

    EDIT: I think he is better than Bosa overall and can do more for a defense than Bosa can. I could be wrong, but I can live with that if so. He had more sacks than Nick Bosa last year and had the same number as Joey Bosa his rookie season. Joey Bosa had 40 tackles his rookie season and Allen had 43. Nick Bosa had 47 tackles. Allen is right there with both of them, and I think it's ridiculous that fans think the Bosas are the be-all, end-all. They aren't.

    Again, I may have been unclear, but he drafted more DL in the 1st round and with higher picks than any other position, and that was after Wilkerson, Coples and Richardson (along with Dee Milliner) were taken in the 1st round in 3 consecutive years, and Idzik took Calvin Pryor. So the Jets' draft history over the last 10 years has been overwhelmingly focused on the defense with their 1st round picks.

    With his 5 1st round picks, he took Sam and 4 defensive players: a SS, a DE, a DT, and an undersized ILB/OLB. He pretty much ignored the offense with his #1 picks. He used 5 of 6 2nd round picks on offense, but that was largely because he traded 3 of them to move up to get Sam. If he had taken Mahomes, he would have those 2nd round picks to use. 4 of his 6 3rd round picks were used on defense. Out of 14 picks in the 1st 3 rounds he used 9 on defense & 8 on offense, and it's only that close because again, he used 3 - 2nd round picks to move up for Sam.

    Overall, out of his 34 draft picks this is the breakdown of how he used his picks:

    QB - 3 - Sam Darnold (1st), Christian Hackenberg (2nd), & Bryce Petty (4th)
    WR - 4 - Devin Smith (2nd), ArDarius Steward (3rd), Chad Hansen (4th), & Charone Peake (7th round)
    TE - 3 - Chris Herndon (4th), Jordan Leggett (5th), & Trevon Wesco (4th)
    RB - 2 - Elijah McGuire (6th) & Trenton Cannon (6th)
    OT - 2 - Chuma Edoga (3rd) & Brandon Shell (5th)
    OG - 1 - Jarvis Harrison (5th)
    C - 0
    DL - 5 - Leonard Williams (1st), Quinnen Williams (1st), Nathan Shepherd (3rd), Folorunso Fatukasi (6th), & Deon Simon (7th)
    ILB - 2 - Darron Lee (1st) & Blake Cashman (5th)
    OLB - 3 - Jachai Polite (3rd), Dylan Donahue (5th), Lorenzo Mauldin (3rd), & Jordan Jenkins (3rd)
    CB - 5 - Blessuan Austin (6th), Parry Nickerson (6th), Jeremy Clark (6th), Derrick Jones (6th), & Justin Burris (4th)
    S - 2 - Jamal Adams (1st) & Marcus Maye (2nd)
    P - 1 - Lac Edwards (7th)
    K - 0
     
    #90 NCJetsfan, May 24, 2020
    Last edited: May 25, 2020
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  11. BudJet

    BudJet Well-Known Member

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    I think it's more on Gase & CS to turn the players with potential into winners. JD has provided players with potential such as Perryman & Mims & Perine & Becton & etc. It's not on JD if they don't pan out. JD got good value this past Draft now it's up to CS to develop them. I personally think that Mims will surprise everyone with his route running. We have 2 good receiver coaches, & he's not as bad a route runner as some think, judging from film breakdown. He sells his route well & uses his body well for leverage, & high points the ball to make contested catches. I feel better about 2020 receivers than 2019.
     
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  12. i stand by my opinion & i dont care about perception. I respect you but im not sure why you keep having to passive aggressively confront me regarding this topic. You dont have to agree.Clearly you dont.So be it. That doesnt mean im backing down

    While i respect other’s opinion, this topic is something im passionate about. It correlates directly to Sam’s development & frankly is a perpetual weakness.The blind eye along w subpar standards the team & fan base accept at WR is preposterous.Embarassing really.

    One more time:

    We wont accept substandard at OL..why do we accept it year after year from the guys who actually score points?
     
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  13. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Well-Known Member

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    Well, you completely misunderstood my post, and made yourself look like an ass. No need for negative responses like that. All I was doing was asking @KurtTheJetsFan what he would have done? I was trying to figure out other options because he does not seem pleased with the Jets current WR group, but there is only so much Douglas can do. I am not suggesting he said or thought those actual things. You gave some good alternatives that Douglas could have done. That is all I was asking for. Also, I am sure I have made worse posts. :)
     
  14. K'OB

    K'OB 2021 TGG Fantasy Football Champ

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    I do it to try and stop you becoming a one track poster, there are only so many times you can say the same thing Kurt, we understood your position months ago and I really do not know of any poster who is disagreeing with your pov of the WR's are and have been in the main shit.

    The whole fucking team has been subpar and shit and that is what is embarrassing for us supporters, it isn't just at WR, the whole franchise from top to bottom as been subpar and shit, hopefully, JD can at least get one part of it moving in the right direction.

    The next part will be a new head coach if Gase blows this season.

    We will never be shot of the Talcum powder twins, so that is a dream too far.

    OL hopefully sorted, one good WR in, some possible improvers off FA and then next season another shiny new WR1.

    Passive-aggressive is a bit much psychobabble for me tbh it was done with humour in mind, hence the smilies and I thought the last sentence was friendly enough.
     
  15. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    How was it a negative response? By saying it was beneath you? Is that how I made myself look like an ass? People respond to others' posts all the time. I knew you had asked Kurt that, but didn't think it would be harmful to answer it myself. You did ask him those questions directly, and you know that Kurt has never suggested any such thing, or should know it. Kurt is clear and consistent. In my opinion, those were insulting questions implying that Kurt loved Robby or would burn draft capital trading for Hopking or Diggs, or taking Lamb instead of Becton. By asking him those questions it definitely looked like you were saying that Kurt had said those things or were disrespecting his opinion. IMO that was unlike you. You are one of the most positive, nicest posters on here. That's why I said it was beneath you. I was also surprised that you couldn't seem to think of what else Douglas could have done in the draft to address the WR position. My response wasn't intended to be disrespectful or negative, and I don't it was. I'm sorry that you obviously do.

    You said:

    I'm not sure why you took such offense at my response to you. We have very respectful exchanges and respect each other's opinions. I don't recall ever having had a negative exchange with you. I'm truly puzzled here.
     
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  16. We’re all good man. I have no problem w you..im just trying to understand why you keep mentioning it to me is all.

    i dont understand the lack of outrage. I dont understand people being complacent. Folks were ready to tar & feather the team if they didnt address OL for Sam.Why not the same feelings towards WR?Its like we shrig our shoulders & say “MAYBE next yr” to actually give Sam weapons. Wheres the urgency? Do we want a dynamic offense or just a good OL? Im afraid to know the answer.
     
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  17. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, but you said it was my worst post I ever made. That is what I meant by negative. And saying it was beneath me, yeah, because I did not have the intent you thought I did. Maybe I did phrase the post wrong if you took it the wrong way and thought it was a terrible take. I was just trying to say there were not many ways to improve the WR position more than Douglas has so far, so I wondered what Kurt would have preferred. And yes, we do respect each other's opinions and still do. I just think you misunderstood that original post I made because it was not negative or insulting. At least it was not supposed to be. Just wondered what he would have done instead. And I was happy you answered and gave a good take. Nothing wrong there at all.
     
  18. Sorry i didnt respond sooner.

    i wanted to see WR be a bigger priority w the main objective being to add more long term pieces & that was w the assumption that RA was being re-signed.

    instead we let RA walk & signed a similar level player for only 1 yr. We then went into a WR heavy draft & only brought in one body.

    We pretty much treaded water except for Mims. I loved Doctson coming out of draft but until he proves otherwise hes just a camp body.

    Sam needs guys he can grow with & vice versa who he knows will be here for the long haul. .Its a big part of developing a QB. At this stage the only sure things to be here & contribute are Crowder & Mims.

    We basically put a big band aid on the entire unit & said maybe next yr.Well maybe in 2 yrs Sam will walk.I wouldnt blame him
     
  19. CotcheryFan

    CotcheryFan 2018 ROTY Poster Award Winner

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    Will you change your tune if Douglas takes a WR in round 1 next year? I want this guy if we can't land Chase.
    IMO, he's NFL ready and would've gone no later than early round 2 this year.
     
  20. Id like to see 2 more young WRs acquired..one via trade or FA & one early in the draft.

    That can be offset by trading a pickj for a guy like Curtis Samuel or acquiring one in the upcoming supplemental draft
     
    #100 KurtTheJetsFan, May 24, 2020
    Last edited by a moderator: May 24, 2020
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