Thanks ID. Great prediction. I was not really advocating keeping him at current salary, or keeping him at all. I was simply trying to rationalize why JD so far appears like he sees value in keeping him, and not going hard after a pro bowler in his place. Your suggestion that a re negotiation is in work is probably much more realistic, if he intends to keep him after all. JD is fair but tough with negotiations.
I highly doubt Winters is on the roster come Week 1. I think they see value in keeping him around until something else better comes along.Until then hes an experienced well respected vet who the locker room respects.I think he may actually have day 3 trade value but any interested teams likely would wait for his release.He definitely needs a change of scenery & Jets need to move on.
At this point he has to be one of the longest tenured Jets if not the longest tenured Jet. If there's nothing better out there and there's no pressing need for the cap space it makes no sense to cut him before camp. Maybe his play will be elevated with the fight or flight for his job.
On one hand I agree that if there's no pressing need for the cap space, it makes no sense to cut him before camp. Some team may lose a starting OG or key backup OG, and Douglas could conceivably trade him for a player that could help our depth at another position or for a 2021 draft pick. OTOH, he he probably will take away snaps from Van Roten, Clark, and Andrews. Especially with the probable lack of OTAs and mini-camps, and shortened TC, I think the team would be better served by giving Winters' snaps to Clark to speed his development, Van Roten, and Andrews.
Winters was solid for us before he signed his new deal, but once he signed, the dude just couldn’t stay healthy.
You sort of contradict your own point though. If everything's going to be shortened then you should be giving the snaps to the vet that's entering his second year of the system, not the rookie and the two free agents. Either way, I have to believe that Winters and Van Roten will start the year as the starting guards. They're just the best two and most experience players. Lewis will push for one of those spots, with the rest as depth. I think Clark is here to be a future tackle, not a guard, so I don't believe they'll push him for a guard spot (but I could be wrong). I just included him because the guy will definitely want to try to play where ever he can.
Definitley. Winters was just downright awful his first year for us. And then he fixed it and turned it around and stopped getting beat by the same upfield/cut inside move that plagued him early in his career. He fixed it and became what Matt Slauson should've been. Middle of the road guard that you should always retain if you can on a reasonable contract. I mean Winters is slightly overpaid but whatever. His contract isn't that bad.
CC and NC Jets - Thanks for the great back and forth. It's this type of posting I miss on this board and why I rarely post anymore. Too many times I sign on and its just name calling and arguing about nonsense. Thanks for bringing me back to the early times when the posting talked real football and the back and forth was respectful and informative.
You're right that I do contradict myself. That's because I can see the virtue on both sides of the issue. If Winters were likely to be here long term, and to be the starter, then yes, I agree that he should get the majority of the snaps. I just don't think he's going to be here. I think the only reason Douglas hasn't cut bait with Winters yet, is that he hasn't needed the cap space. With as injured as Winters seems to stay, and at the low level at which he plays, I have a very hard time thinking that he will beat out either Van Roten or Lewis or should. At best. I'm thinking that Douglas is re-negotiating Winters deal him, and that Douglas is only thinking of keeping him as depth or as a possible trade chip for a team that may lose an OG in TC. I think that Van Roten and Lewis will be the starters and that they should get the majority of the snaps with the other likely starters. It will be interesting to see how the Jets view Clark. Most have him projected to OG in the NFL, but the Jets could see him as their future RT. If adjusts to the speed of the NFL quickly enough and learns the offense, I could even see him making a push to get playing time this season.
So basically a free agent guard who is good is looking for a contract worth the same amount as a guard on our roster who is bad and can be cut at any time with no cap penalty. Tough call.
it makes a lot of sense to cut him. the odds of this dude making through the season unscathed are slim ... save the $8 mill, start lewis and clark (probably lewis and van roten but the line wrote itself), and you dont have to worry about working a new starter in mid-season when winters inevitably goes on ir
But is that based on anything other than the fact that he played on a good team and made the popularity contest from being on a good team? I don't know whether he played left or right but there are All-Pro tackles on either side. The Vikings moved Hunter and Griffen inside in obvious passing situations in the playoff game and he and Peat got beaten like absolute drums. It's why they lost the game.
Winters whiffs on blocks too ... Hunter and Griffen are no slouches either ... Peat apparently was horrible that day ... to me Warford still an upgrade I've seen plays like this happen too many times with Winters.
Winters is way overpaid for what he gives the team; a decent locker room presence and an okay player when he's not injured, and that's been pretty rare throughout his career. Cut his bad contract and resign him for what he should be earning, $3 miilion or less. If another team offers him more, so be it. Their mistake.
I wonder if Warford coming here hinders the “youth” movement Joe D maybe going for. Winters by all accounts will be gone by the end of the year regardless. By then, maybe any of Clarke, Edoga maybe slotted in at guard. Does bringing in a Warford keep you locked in for maybe 2 years or so ? I’m not sure if he wants a longer term deal but that maybe in play here. It does seem going from Winters to Warford is a sure upgrade though and for the same price...
If you look at this from Warford's view the timing of his release is such that he will likely sign a short term deal and be a free agent in a couple years. If he wants that next contract to be big he needs to sign with a team where he'll look more like the Saint all-pro the last 3 years than the player he was his first 4 with Detroit. If he sees himself a being able to come close to what he did in NO coming here it's a no-brainer from his side (no competition) and from the Jets (swapping Winters for him with little or no added cash outlay). Adding McGovern at C certainly helps because he won't have to tag team with him as much as he would with a lessor C. The question is how does he view the RT position and what will that mean for him? That, to me is the biggest consideration for JD as the talking point to lure him here. If he can't convince him the RT position will be solid he isn't coming here no matter how much any of us want him. If JD tries to make the point that Egoda is the guy he isn't signing here. Forgot to mention, if JD's plan all along was to cut Winters pre June 1 and roll that money forward this doesn't change his plan, he will just roll with the FA's he signed and draft picks.
I look at this from one angle. Douglas and Gase's most important job this year is to see if Darnold is our long term QB. He has to show a big leap in ability and results this year. To do that we need to put the best possible line in front of him to give him the chance to develop. We all know he has some bad habits and a lot of it is because of getting hit too frequently. If Warford can be brought in for a nominal difference of just getting rid of Winters, to me it's a no brainer. Warford is a durable player and still somewhat young. Maybe not as good as his ProBowl status but he's better than Winters who just can not stay on the field and Alex Lewis is really just a decent backup. I would even go a step further and sign Peters for one year just in case Becton is not totally ready. Develop Darnold, number one priority.
