Well again, I completely agree. That's the real problem I see with Gase as HC: he can be mediocre, perhaps slightly better, but he will never be a consistent winner, nor get them to, and win, a SB (on his own merits - perhaps Darnold becomes another Manning and is able to carry the team on his back, it might enable them to win a SB, but I'd say those odds are long). I don't know him personally, nor know enough about him to say for sure, but my observation is is that Gase has a social deficit and lacks empathy and understanding, which prevents him from being able to figure out how to convey his football knowledge to players, or to know how to use their strengths. At least that what it looks like from the outside. My fear is that as long as Gase can be around a .500 HC, he'll keep his job. And no, I'm NOT rooting for him to fail...I hope I'm wrong, but that's my nightmare.
[QUOTE="Jerryjeudy, post: 3926727, member: 23320"]I just think Jeudy is going to be an all-time great and thought Darnold would benefit more from throwing to and being protected by Jeudy than being protected by Becton Becton is obviously a huge plus in the run game as well But from the standpoint of maximizing Darnold’s talents while protecting him, I’d give the edge to Jeudy There will be more LTs in next year’s draft, free agency and the draft after that Maybe not at Becton’s size, and maybe not with Becton’s ceiling, but there will be some pretty good LTs available, assuming the Jets are drafting in the top 12 again next year However, I don’t think we will have a chance to draft somebody on the level of Jerry Jeudy again I think he is going to be that good[/QUOTE] The bold is where I think the wheels really come off the wagon of your theory. No WR is going to protect a QB more than a great LT. Sorry, but that's just absurd imo. I think you way overestimate the "protection" a WR gives to a QB. I do think your theory has merit to a point, but you take it too far. The Jets would probably never get the chance to draft a potential HOF LT like Becton again, either. The Jets couldn't afford to wait until next year to take an LT. I've already pointed that out in another response to you. They basically only had 2 OTs on the roster, and neither were all that solid or a sure thing. With Fant and Edoga as the starting OTs, Sam could have gone down in the first game with a season-ending or career-threatening injury. Heaven forbid if one of them got hurt, because our OTs would then have been worse than last year. Other than signing the ancient Peters or re-signing the meh Beacham, Douglas had no choice but to take Becton. The Jets supposedly saw Wirfs as more of an OG or RT, and there were no assurances that Cleveland or Jones would have even been able to become a quality starter ever, much less this year. Having a great WR, but if your QB has no time to allow him to run his route (no matter how fast or how good a route runner he is), then that WR is as useless as tits on a bull. Also from just this draft, Lamb, Ruggs and Jefferson all have the potential to become better, more productive WRs than Jeudy in the NFL There will be more excellent WR prospects next season. Taking a WR over a LT when you have a desperate need is putting the cart before the horse.
The bold is where I think the wheels really come off the wagon of your theory. No WR is going to protect a QB more than a great LT. Sorrr, but that's just absurd imo. I think you way overestimate the "protection" a WR gives to a QB. I do think your theory has merit to a point, but you take it too far. The Jets would probably never get the chance to draft a potential HOF LT like Becton again, either. The Jets couldn't afford to wait until next year to take an LT. I've already pointed that out in another response to you. They basically only had 2 OTs on the roster, and neither were all that solid or a sure thing. With Fant and Edoga as the starting OTs, Sam could have gone down in the first game with a season-ending or career-threatening injury. Heaven forbid if one of them got hurt, because our OTs would then have been worse than last year. Other than signing the ancient Peters or re-signing the meh Beacham, Douglas had no choice but to take Becton. The Jets supposedly saw Wirfs as more of an OG or RT, and there were no assurances that Cleveland or Jones would have even been able to become a quality starter ever, much less this year. Having a great WR, but if your QB has no time to allow him to run his route (no matter how fast or how good a route runner he is), then that WR is as useless as tits on a bull. Also from just this draft, Lamb, Ruggs and Jefferson all have the potential to become better, more productive WRs than Jeudy in the NFL There will be more excellent WR prospects next season. Taking a WR over a LT when you have a desperate need is putting the cart before the horse.[/QUOTE] Benefit more from THROWING TO AND being protected by Jeudy MAXIMIZING DARNOLD’s TALENTS while protecting him Becton isn’t catching passes and Jeudy will maximize Sam’s arm talent Jeudy is a slam dunk pro-bowler I think Lamb will bust — he was schemed wide open on most of his big plays — I think he will struggle to gain good separation from NFL corners Ruggs could be very special if used correctly but he wont come anywhere close to leading the league in receptions People act like it was Becton or there would be nothing but empty space at LT — this is ridiculous — watch some pretty good LTs come out of the 2nd-4th round in this year’s draft, just like we see nearly every year Not every good LT in the NFL was a 1st round pick
Benefit more from THROWING TO AND being protected by Jeudy MAXIMIZING DARNOLD’s TALENTS while protecting him Becton isn’t catching passes and Jeudy will maximize Sam’s arm talent And Jeudy isn't blocking anyone, while Becton will help ensure that Sam gets to use his arm talent. Jeudy is a slam dunk pro-bowler He may be, but becoming a Pro Bowler is highly dependent on the team a player is on. Jeudy may become a Pro Bowler on the Broncos, but he wouldn't necessarily become one on the Jets - especially as you noted. Gase is a poor HC. I think Lamb will bust — he was schemed wide open on most of his big plays — I think he will struggle to gain good separation from NFL corners Ruggs could be very special if used correctly but he wont come anywhere close to leading the league in receptions People act like it was Becton or there would be nothing but empty space at LT — this is ridiculous — watch some pretty good LTs come out of the 2nd-4th round in this year’s draft, just like we see nearly every year People are not acting as if it was Becton or empty space. Almost everyone here who has said they agree with taking Becton at 11 acknowledge that there was a good argument to be made for taking one of the top WRs there, but there was a clear difference between the top 4 OTs and the rest based on widespread consensus across the scouting and player analyses, and less difference between the top 3 WRs and the next tier, thus making the selection of an OT the smarter pick. Not every good LT in the NFL was a 1st round pick No, but most 1st round OTs are good, and good for a long time...on average longer than WRs. And the last time the Jets picked an OT in the first round was the beginning of the last time they had a good OL. [/QUOTE]
[/QUOTE] I guess I need to come clean that I’m not completely sold on Becton He could be great but I think he is riskier than Jets fans want to admit Weight risk and injury risk Drafting #11 when your OL and WRs are both shit... take the sure thing Jeudy will help the pass protection because he gets open very quickly and consistently Mims isn’t that type of WR at all If Becton gets hurt and Jeudy is an absolute star in his rookie year, we can revisit this thread
It's clear we'll have to agree to disagree. What's also clear is your belief that Jeudy was the right pick, regardless of any other factors. While I might be able to agree that - in a vacuum, independent of other factors - Jeudy is probably a more sure success than Becton, this isn't how things work - you do have to account for these other factors, one of them being positional need, and the ease/difficulty of filling that need. As I've said repeatedly, the odds of being able to find an OT with a strong chance of success after round 1 are less than the odds of finding a WR with a strong chance of success, therefore Becton, while perhaps not as sure to be successful as Jeudy - at least right away - is still almost certain of succeeding at a high level. I don't expect you to agree, but did want to restate my reasons for disagreeing.
I think Darnold can be a top 5-7 NFL QB But he will never develop without some very good to great WRs This was the best WR draft in ages Mims was a good pick, but he fell for a reason Most NFL teams don’t see him as a #1 receiver Will Douglas take a WR in 1st Round next year? Or is the OL in the draft going to become the new DL in the draft?
Benefit more from THROWING TO AND being protected by Jeudy MAXIMIZING DARNOLD’s TALENTS while protecting him Becton isn’t catching passes and Jeudy will maximize Sam’s arm talent Jeudy is a slam dunk pro-bowler I think Lamb will bust — he was schemed wide open on most of his big plays — I think he will struggle to gain good separation from NFL corners Ruggs could be very special if used correctly but he wont come anywhere close to leading the league in receptions People act like it was Becton or there would be nothing but empty space at LT — this is ridiculous — watch some pretty good LTs come out of the 2nd-4th round in this year’s draft, just like we see nearly every year Not every good LT in the NFL was a 1st round pick[/QUOTE] ROFLMAO! OK whatever. If you truly think Lamb will bust, then I don't think we have too much else to say to each other regarding WRs, as I couldn't possibly disagree with you more.
ROFLMAO! OK whatever. If you truly think Lamb will bust, then I don't think we have too much else to say to each other regarding WRs, as I couldn't possibly disagree with you more.[/QUOTE] He’s a great runner after the catch and a very good football player But he was wide open on so many of his catches and it was due to scheme and not because he created separation You think he will have more receptions, yards, TDs than Jeudy in rookie year? He’s fortunate to wind up with Dak, it’s a great place to be I think good CBs will be able to shut him down
I am a huge huge Jeudy fan, and I definitely wanted Joe to take him at 11. In the end though, I felt with how deep the WR position was, and Joe’s strong conviction on fixing this line would ultimately win out. I felt Jeudy was the best WR in this draft, I also feel Becton could be the best T in this draft. I do wonder if someone like Crowder wasn’t here, would Jeudy have been an option? I don’t know, I just feel getting a franchise caliber T was the plan all along. I also have no qualms that JJ will be more than fine on the outside, because he’s a prestine Route runner...I saw someone mention OBJ, I feel like he’s not as electric speed wise but can run better routes then OBJ. I likened Jeudy to Adams. Similar size and build.
I don’t know exactly why I’m doing this but... Super Bowl winners with 1st round picks used at WR in the 5 years leading up to their SB win: 2019 Chiefs -0 2018 Patriots -0 2017 Eagles -1 (Nelson Agholor, was a bust) 2016 Patriots -0 2015 Broncos -0 2014 Patriots -0 2013 Seahawks -0 2012 Ravens -0 2011 Giants -1 (Hakeem Nicks, only in the league 6 seasons, never made a pro bowl or all-pro) 2010 Packers -0 Let’s follow that up with the same winners with 1st round picks used on OL in the 5 years leading up to their win: 2019 Chiefs -0 2018 Patriots -1 2017 Eagles -1 2016 Patriots -0 2015 Broncos -0 2014 Patriots -1 2013 Seahawks -2 2012 Ravens -1 2011 Giants -0 2010 Packers -1 Out of 10 Winners, 2 1st round picks invested at WR Out of 10 Winners, 7 1st round picks invested at OL What else needs to be said here?
I don’t know exactly why I’m doing this but... Super Bowl winners with 1st round picks used at WR in the 5 years leading up to their SB win: 2019 Chiefs -0 2018 Patriots -0 2017 Eagles -1 (Nelson Agholor, was a bust) 2016 Patriots -0 2015 Broncos -0 2014 Patriots -0 2013 Seahawks -0 2012 Ravens -0 2011 Giants -1 (Hakeem Nicks, only in the league 6 seasons, never made a pro bowl or all-pro) 2010 Packers -0 Let’s follow that up with the same winners with 1st round picks used on OL in the 5 years leading up to their win: 2019 Chiefs -0 2018 Patriots -1 2017 Eagles -1 2016 Patriots -0 2015 Broncos -0 2014 Patriots -1 2013 Seahawks -2 2012 Ravens -1 2011 Giants -0 2010 Packers -1 Out of 10 Winners, 2 1st round picks invested at WR Out of 10 Winners, 7 1st round picks invested at OL What else needs to be said here? Yes I posted this in both threads, but they’re basically the same thread anyway.
Next years draft class may rival the top end talent this one has but maybe not as deep. Chase is the clear #1 to me, speed, route running, dynamic and he’s good size at 6’0” and 200 lbs. he’s to me a star. Justyn Ross maybe the next one of the freakish like WR’s with the 6’4”/205 lb frame and he may run a 4.5...he’s also IMO a 1st rounder. my favorite WR of the next class is actually Rondale Moore, he’s only 5’9” but he’s super electric and gives me Steve Smith vibes. Bama will have another duo of studs coming out in Smith and Waddle, both also likely 1st rounders. Smith is the smooth guy with top flight route running skills while Waddle is the electric, stop on a dime type WR. Rashod Bateman, Tamarrion Terry, Seth Williams and Tylan Wallace all are 1st-2nd round prospects. there’s a legit possibility WR will def be an option for the 1st round next year.
1. If Jets have all the gaping holes filled with top WR on board - why not? 2. That said, I STILL see a lot of pressing needs before WR, namely that blue-chip pass rushing talent in 1st round. Or more OL.
I’d say let the season play out first? What if both Perriman and Mims reach their immense potential this year? Would WR still be a huge need?
I get the concept. It makes sense. However, Jeudy, Lamb, Ruggs, DeAndre Hopkins, Jerry Rice, it doesn't really matter who, all would've had to be open within their first 2 or 3 steps with the O-line last year. How good a WR gets open means nothing if the line can't block for shit. But if the line can block it gives inferior WR's a longer chance to get open. We missed out on 3 great WR's but we potentially got a franchise LT. You take that every day if you don't have one.
I give credit where credit is due This is an excellent post There are 2 factors to take under consideration here to put the OL vs WR in 1st round debate in perspective There are 5 starting OL and teams tend to carry 9 on the roster There are 2-3 starting WRs and teams tend to carry 6 on the roster So just based on the greater number of starting OL, it would make sense to spend more 1st round picks on OL than WR, so it’s not surprising to see that here The second factor to evaluate is the quality of the QBs (and the WRs) on these teams If a team has one of the top QBs in the NFL, drafting WRs in the 1st round isn’t necessary The QBs on this list contain arguably the top 3 QBs of all time, Mahomes and Russell Wilson I view Darnold’s absolute ceiling as a top 5-7 QB in need of a Round 1 WR (and in need of a Round 1 OL) I’m just going to list the QBs that won these Super Bowls, nearly all of whom are much better than Darnold will ever be 2019 Mahomes (on his way to being best ever?) 2018 Brady (GOAT) 2017 Wentz/Foles *** Took a WR in Round 1 2016 Brady (GOAT) 2015 Manning (Better than Brady in many respects) 2014 Brady (GOAT) 2013 Russell Wilson (Incredible QB) 2012 Flacco 2011 Manning *** Took a WR in 1st Round 2010 Aaron Rodgers (Incredible QB)
