I hope you're wrong! If he's the best pick we made in the draft, our draft sucks, and our offense is still in trouble.
That's not at all true. I didn't say he would be the only good pick we made. One of the picks is going to pan out better than all the rest. I think Bryce Hall could be that pick. Doesn't mean guys like Becton, Mims, Davis, Zuniga, or Perrine dont become starters that are high caliber talent
Sorry, but imo you're looking at this totally wrong. It is totally true most of the time. Yes there are exceptions and sometimes players taken in a low round can be great (Tom Brady), but generally speaking, they are nowhere near as good as a player you took in the top 15 of the draft or your 2nd, 3rd or 4th round picks. In this case, Hall could be better than the players taken in the 3rd and 4th rounds, because he was projected to be a 2nd round pick, and he fell most likely due to his injury. In general 2nd round picks are solid starters, sometimes very good starters, but not generally elite. You pick a player in the top 15, he better wind up being elite, or you may have GM problems. Yes, Becton and Mims could still become starters in your scenario, but we need for them to be more than just solid starters. We need for them to be elite players. If you're saying that the CB we took in the 5th round is better than the LT we took in the 1st round or the WR we took in the 2nd, then most likely they're not very good. Hall would have to be a HOF performer for Becton and Mims to still be All Pros or very good players. Players you took in the 1st and 2nd rounds should be a LOT better than a player you took in the 5th round. A top 15 pick should be one of the best in the NFL at his position, not lesser than a 5th round CB you took. As lousy as our OL and WR corps has been if Hall winds up better than Becton and Mims, most likely it will hurt our team. Our D is already strong. We need for both Becton and Mims to become elite players and much better than Hall. If your 1st and 2nd round picks aren't better than a 5th rounder you took, then more than likely the GM is a problem. IMO that's a strange thing to say. Hall was a great value pick, I hope he plays very well, and is a solid contributor for years, but I hope that Becton and Mims blow him out of the water in terms of how good they are. That's what our offense and team need.
If he becomes a shut down corner and nail down one side of our secondary that would be one aweSome pick for a fifth.
I COMPLETELY disagree. In 2009 Julian Edleman was chosen in the 7th round. Both Pat Chung and Sebastian Vollmer were selected that same draft in round 2. In 2006 Elvis Dumervil was chosen in the 4th round. Jay Cutler and Brandon Marshall were selected that same draft in rounds 1 and 4. In 2006 Marques Colston was chosen in the 7th round. Roman Harper, Zach Strief, Rob Ninkovich, and Jahri Evans were all selected before him. In 2010 Antonio Brown was chosen in the 6th round. Maurkice Pouncey, Jason Worilds, and Emmanuel Sanders were all selected before him. I can keep going also. The point is, just because you strike gold in a late round does not mean the picks before him will not be pro bowl talent and elite. There were MANY guys chosen in a later round that ended up becoming the best pick of their draft class. In that same draft guys before him also became elite talents. I never said Bryce Hall would be the only elite player we drafted. If that is the case, then that is definitely unfortunate. But a guy who was rated as a 1st-2nd round pick who fell because of injury can easily become the best pick in our draft even if guys like Becton and Mims become pro bowl elite players
I do like his upside and feel this pick was a great value based on his production before the injury. Give me Dennard or Ryan and I feel very good about the back end
He's coming off a tough injury for his position. His ankle was mangled and worse there was ligament damage. I'm hoping for the best with the kid as he seems really talented but where we got him it's a perfect spot to risk it.
We now have two outside CBs in Austin and Hall, who if not for college injuries; were both 1st round talents and guaranteed 1st round draft picks. These kids are steals @ a position of need too. Desir, Poole, Austin & Hall could end up becoming very exciting to watch behind our front 7 + Adams roaming the entire defense.
I would get Ryan for a year also. We have a lot of potential but could use that one solid presence. Though with the trade for Wilson not sure it’s as big a priority for Douglas.
Guy, those are ALL exceptions to the rule, NOT the rule, and I acknowledged that in my last response in mentioning Tom Brady. Most of the time,1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th round picks not only should be better than a 5th pick, they ARE better. That's FACT and reality. We could look at the last 10-20 years of draft history, and there would be hundreds, if not thousands of 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th round picks who were really good/great as opposed to the few really good/great 5th round picks. You're being irrational in the extreme. I'm not saying that 5th and 6th round players can't be great. Obviously, some of them have been and are. I'm saying that they're in the vast minority, and most of the time earlier picks are better. That's the indisputable truth.
I understand they are exceptions and I am far from being "irrational in the extreme". I simply stated that this pick may be the best pick of our draft. There's a lot of reasoning behind that statement, including the fact that he was looked at as a 1st or 2nd round talent prior to his injury. If he pans out as a 1st or 2nd round talent, then we struck gold. You brought up the fact that it would be a problem if our 4th round pick was better than our 1st round pick. Why would that be a problem? The point of my comment above was referencing the fact that many players are taken in the later rounds that pan out and are just as good or better than those taken in the first few rounds. Even if it is the exception, I am still trying to figure out how if he pans out as the best pick of our draft it is bad for our team and our offense is screwed. So by your theory if Bryce Hall becomes an elite corner in the NFL and all of our other picks are pro bowl starters or very good starters, our draft sucked and we're screwed? Where's the logic in that? Bryce Hall can easily be the best pick of our draft. He may prove to be the best talent we got. He may prove to have been an absolute steal where we got him. That has no effect on the quality of the players we drafted before him. Basically only players taken in the first few rounds can be elite and pro bowl worthy. If the later round picks do, the draft sucked. That's essentially what you are saying. I live in a world where both are possible. A later round steal can be the best pick of our draft while the remaining picks still have the possibility of becoming pro bowlers and day 1 starters.
If Bryce Hall become an elite corner and is better than our other earlier draft picks, more than likely they aren't going to become pro bowl starters. At best, they'll be average or solid starters. That's not what you want with a top 15 pick. It wouldn't be as bad for the 3rd and 4th round picks, even the 2nd, and of course, it would be great for the team if he becomes an elite CB. I just don't think it would be great if he becomes a better player than Becton. We need Becton to be the best player we took because of the draft capital we expended on him. If he's not the best player, then that means we shouldn't have taken him, and Douglas made a mistake. It means that we should have taken Wirfs or Lamb/Jeudy,. Hall may become the best pick of our draft, but it won't be "easily." For one thing Becton is a better athlete and has better movement skills for his size than Hall does for his. Mims also has better movement skills, is faster and has better hands. I agree that Hall can be the best pick of the draft in terms of value, but I don't think he can or will become the best player we drafted, and I sure hope that he doesn't become the best player we drafted. IMO there's a huge difference in speaking about someone becoming the best pick in terms of value, and someone becoming the best player or best pick because of what they do on the field. If Hall becomes the best player on the field out of this draft, then more than likely we're going to need to draft another LT within a year or two, maybe two more WRs, and another FS. You obviously like Hall a lot more than I do. I didn't see him as a 1st round pick. I saw him as a mid-to-lower 2nd round pick. Another poster and I had a discussion offline regarding Hall and Jaylon Johnson. He favored Hall and I favored Johnson by a wide margin. Johnson went where I thought he would. I have a hard time believing that Hall dropped as far as he did because of a fractured ankle. I think his slower speed was a factor as well, and I just don't see him as becoming elite or even very good in the NFL. I'm sure that not being able to bring Hall in for team doctors to check him out or work him out caused him to drop further than normal, but still, imo, if he's as good as you and some other say, he should have fallen no further than bottom of the 3rd round, maybe the 4th, but certainly not the 5th, not in a passing league where good coverage CBs are in short supply. I think now that part of our disagreement, perhaps a large part, is semantics, and how we view Hall as a prospect. I respect your opinion and consider you a very knowledgeable poster, that why I was so shocked and couldn't understand your initial post and response. I didn't mean any offense. I think I see now what you meant. Peace.
So what you're trying to say is Hall can be the best pick of the draft because of where he was selected - the 5th round ( a steal so to speak ). Where as if Becton becomes a perennial pro bowler he's a great pick also but more expected since he was taken at #11. I can understand that theory. On the other hand I think NCJetsfan is correctly saying that historically the odds are stacked against the chances of a lower round pick becoming the best pick of a draft or even a good player. Now in Hall's case while I love the fact he slipped so far there is a slight doubt in my mind as to how did 31 other teams pass him up several times simply because of an ankle injury. I really hope you're right Falco....look at the possibility going forward: Hall, Austin as the starting CBs with Adams and Maye/Davis at safety. A potential excellent backfield to go with a very solid up the middle presence. All the Jets would need is to add a solid EDGE presence to cap a potential top 5 defense …..
Then we have no disagreement. Maybe I should have been more clear when I stated that he might be the best pick of our draft. That statement was not based only on talent. While talent is always involved, it was more a statement claiming that his value in the 4th round, if he pans out, will likely be the best pick, in terms of value, in our draft. No offense taken. These are discussions I enjoy having. Not discussions on why OBJ is not a top 10 WR of all time
Of course history is stacked against him. History is stacked against me making that comment. I still think his value might be the best pick in our draft. And I am hoping like hell Zuniga pans out. Many of you know my theory regarding UF players, but last time we took one at edge rusher, it did not end well. If Zuniga can pan out and perform like he did in college, we have a legit pass rusher. He was an animal in college.
And for the record, I think Becton is going to be a fuckin stud and eat defensive linemen alive. I think that was a FANTASTIC pick.
