The Price of a Sack

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by MaximusD163, Apr 3, 2020.

  1. MaximusD163

    MaximusD163 Well-Known Member

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    Be careful what you wish for...
     
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  2. IIMeanDeanII

    IIMeanDeanII Well-Known Member

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    Based on what?

    I can go through a list of reasons why your statement doesn't make sense....

    However, I would like to know what your basis Is first?

    I do think Clowney is the better overall player, but for the amount of hype and money he is asking for, hell no... He isn't much better at all from a statistical standpoint, so... He is more athletic? K.. Too bad It has barely shown up as an advantage..

    That's a very bold statement for a guy who has severely under-whelmed so far in the NFL.
     
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  3. DefenseWinsChampionships

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    I wouldn't considered an all-around and very versatile talent who at the age of only 27 has already become an NFL 3x Pro-Bowler with Second-team All-Pro honors (due to) consisting of 236 tackles (71 tackles for loss behind the Line of Scrimmage), 32.0 career sacks (80 QB hits), 13 passes defended, 9 forced fumbles, 6 fumble recoveries and 1 career INT as having had a "severely under-whelming career" thus far.

    I often notice posters focusing on and referring to his sack numbers as a way of diminishing his style of play; while completely ignoring his tackles for loss (actual production) behind the line of scrimmage.

    His ability to completely blow up an offensive line in order to get into an opponents backfield with game changing plays (that cause for drives to end) is an extremely rare ability that he's featured since entering this league; but yet goes unnoticed by box score watchers from home (and below I'll explain just how rare his ability to dominate within a front seven truly is):

    Dating back to 1999 his 21 tackles for loss behind the line of scrimmage during a single season (2017 as a Texan) still to this day ranks within the top 20 (19th) for tackles for loss behind the L.O.S but yet; crickets.

    And of the remaining 19 players who've had more than 21 tackles for loss during a single season (2nd place being 29) Jadeveon Clowney had already accomplished it @ the age of only 24 and is currently still the 6th youngest to accomplish this feat within an NFL front 7 - as only guys such as Von Miller, J.J Watt, Pierre-Paul and Lavonte David etc have pulled it off at a younger age.

    I'd rather have an outside force of a player within my front seven who makes a career off of living behind the line of scrimmage within an offenses backfield throughout 4 quarters of play - over a glorified sack artists who averages less than 1.0 sacks per game any day of the week and twice on Sundays (especially within a Greg Williams/Jamal Adams led defense).

    And speaking of a severely under-whelming (1st round bust) your TGG logo reminds me of your boy... Vernon Gholston... out of Ohio State.

    So I ask of you, before ripping the Clown apart can you please post and show me some type of highlight Jet videos of Vernon Gholston making the same types of plays as Jadeveon Clowney has made since entering this league? No. You can not.

    You're not able to do for Vernon Gholston (and plenty of others) what I can do for Jadeveon Clowney (and that's because Gholston ended his career after 45 games played with only 42 career tackles and 0.00 career sacks with only 3 tackles for loss behind the line of scrimmage ala (not an easy thing to do).

    And comparing him to Jordan Jenkins while you're at it.

    Dude, really?

    Wake me up once "Jordan Jenkins" is ever ranked and written about within anyone's top 100 list of NFL (impact) football players (let alone mentioned alongside of the top 30's) and then and only then could I then take your cute Jordan Jenkins comparison seriously.







    At this rate and at this pace (only 27 years of age) after only 5 seasons of play but yet still 71 tackles for loss behind the line of scrimmage - he'll rank (within) top 10 All-Time for NFL tackles for loss behind the line of scrimmage with over 140 joining the likes of...

    Brian Urlacher.
    Von Miller.
    Julius Peppers.
    John Abraham.
    DeMarcus Ware.
    Jason Taylor
    J.J Watt.
    Calais Campbell..
    Jared Allen.
    Terrell Suggs.

    But yet a lot of you Jadeveon Clowney critics talk down upon him (as if he's some type of Vernon Gholston OSU bust) because you guys are simply only looking at box score numbers for "sacks" but yet completely ignoring everything else that makes him impactful as he lines up all over an NFL's front seven.

    Russell Wilson on Jadeveon Clowney: ‘I need you homie’

    “Clowney come back. If you are listening bro. We’ve got another Super Bowl to win, man. We need you. We need you to come back Clowney. Clowney, Clowney if you can hear me, please come back, bro. I need you homie.”“I think we need a couple more (players),’’ Wilson said. “I think we need a couple more. Jadeveon is a big-time guy that we would love to get back on our football team. He was so good in the locker room. He brought so many just havoc plays to the field.”

    So while you're over there making posts on TheGangGreen comparing him to "Jordan Jenkins"...

    The likes of Joe Douglas/Gregg Williams/Jamal Adams would all like to have him as a JET (inquiring) and even a SB winning Quarterback his former teammate in Russell Wilson (who won with a great defense featuring the Legion of Boom) is literally begging Jadeveon not to leave and asking (publicly) for him to re-join his locker room out there in Seattle...
     
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  4. 101GangGreen101

    101GangGreen101 2018 Thread of the Year Award Winner

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    This guy really used the top 100 countdown to try and solidify his point about him being a great pass-rusher

    [​IMG]
     
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  5. DefenseWinsChampionships

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    Wrong.

    That post above was actually about Clowney being one of the greatest play making defenders behind the line of scrimmage (LOS) of All-TIme...
     
  6. 101GangGreen101

    101GangGreen101 2018 Thread of the Year Award Winner

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    Wow talk about reaching. Guess you need to find something to make your argument valid.

    Good luck!
     
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  7. IIMeanDeanII

    IIMeanDeanII Well-Known Member

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    I can't believe I'm biting on this but....Here....We.....Go....

    Trajectory... He is a better overall player....Way too over-hyped, Isn't worth the money he wants.

    These are important words moving forward because these were key words I used within my post.

    Let's talk stats. I love how you list Clowney's six years of stats, in an attempt to diminish my original statements. Which, to be fair, Is better than you trying to validate Clowney using the top 100. Super credible, I applaud you.. Sigh.

    Back on topic.

    If you we look at the two players I've mentioned In my post, I clearly acknowledged that Clowney is better than Jenkins. Statistically, not by much though. Hell, JJ is better at certain aspects of the game than Clowney. Especially when It comes to setting an edge. However, different schemes, different debate. So If you actually look at 4 years for Clowney, (I didn't count his first season due to lack of games) and 4 years for Jenkins....

    Well.. I'll list it.
    Sacks:
    Clowney - 29
    Jenkins - 20.5
    Tackles:
    Clowney - 198 (COMB) 146 (SOLO)
    Jenkins - 157 (COMB) 100 (SOLO)
    TFL:
    Clowney - 61
    Jenkins - 22

    Fuck, I'm bored already.

    Okay, so Jenkins isn't on the TFL trajectory, got me there.. I don't give a shit though when It comes down to It, there is a reason he is still sitting all alone on the open market right now, It's because teams and most fans understand the guy isn't worth the money he is begging for. Which was my real point within all of It, which, clearly has flown over a couple of posters heads now.

    Jenkins was thrown In to highlight just how absurd It is to consider paying a guy 18mil a year, when someone like me, can easily look at the production of one of our own guys, who Is a solid player but nothing to write home to mom about and compare him statistically to a guy like, Clowney?

    A fucking stud who deserved to be paid 18mil a year, you listed him already, JJ Watt. Look at his first four years in the league, that Is what a game changer looks like. That's an elite player, who deserved HOF money.

    Clowney Isn't that. He hasn't proved that. You say he's "ONLY" 27. That's getting up there In NFL years man. Yeah, he still has some prime football left to play, but he looked kinda weak last year with the Seahawks... He made a couple of good plays, in a couple games. Great, so what? Jenkins had a better year statistically than Clowney did last year, even at your coveted "TFL" argument you gravitated towards like It was the worlds greatest argument to be had. Stop, It wasn't, then you completely shit on yourself with your "Top 100" non-sense.

    ..BUT, BUT, BUT...

    You couldn't stop there. Nope..

    You had to try to attack my fandom at the college level. Which Is cool, except, all you did was look extremely ignorant.

    I have been against Vernon Gholston, even before we drafted him. I wanted nothing to do with him, stated this many times in the past, even before he got drafted. I thought he was extremely stiff in college and his ONE move that he had, was the bull rush in college. That's it. BULLRUSH. He wasn't a pass-rusher, he was stiff as a board, with zero bend.

    See, you just sound ignorant In almost every post you do on this board. I have refrained up till this point on calling you out on your bullshit, but that ship has sailed. I won't attack you, I will call a spade a spade though.

    Again, you sound ignorant because you reached hard In hopes that I was some Idiot on this board, just some mediocre fan, who doesn't actually watch college football, and Is a complete homer.

    Not everyone Is that way, sir. Some people actually watch several prospects in college too because they love draft season as well. Hi, I'm one of those guys.

    You see, I can separate the college game from the pro game. Especially when It comes to what I want for both of those teams, they are separate. I am not wanting every Ohio State player that becomes eligible for the draft just because they played for Ohio State. I have LITERALLY and INTENTIONALLY voiced my unbiased opinions on OSU players coming out. For example, I don't think Chase Young is going to be nearly as good as people project him to be, I think he is two steps behind the bosa brothers. I think Chase Young is closer to a Vernon Gholston than a Joey or Nick Bosa.

    I know you'll take that out of context too.. No, I don't think Young will be nearly as bad as, Gholston. I think he will be a solid player, just not an elite player. Shit, kinda like YOUR BOY, Clowney.

    ..and just so we are clear. You haven't done SHIT for, Clowney. The guy is what he is... Anyone with a brain isn't going to look at your non-sense and it turn them into some Clowney believer.

    Stop, you're giving yourself too much credit.

    Jordan Jenkins not making the top 100.. That's your... okay.. sounds good. Wow..

    Also, when did I claim Clowney was a bust like, Gholston? Cool.

    Okay. Russel Wilson wants a teammate back, that he is familiar with, that he likely has a relationship with. Great! Makes sense, but, what the fuck does that matter?

    I think that's a reasonable assessment for Joe D, Gregg Williams, and Jamal Adams to want him as a Jet. I think fans, including myself, would like him to be a Jet.

    IF IT MAKES SENSE.

    It wont though because this guy wants the big money. If we gave him that, with the roster we have, It's just a dumb move at the end of the day. He simply isn't worth the price and commitment he will most likely command.

    Have a great day.. Please, If you are going to reach, well, don't, do some research. Don't assume.

    You know what they say about people that ASSume? Yeah? Great. Take care.
     
    #67 IIMeanDeanII, Apr 5, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2020
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  8. DefenseWinsChampionships

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    That reason is because he's already turned down the Miami Dolhpins for $17,000,000 per season (and has also turned down his former team Seattle for $17.5M per season).

    So the point, your real point in which you've been trying to make actually makes no sense at all.

    I guess it was absurd for Miami to offer him $17,000,000 per season and also absurd how Seattle drew their line in the sand @ $17,500,000?

    Yea. Right. Some HOF stud that guy is.

    J.J Watt heading into 2014 signed a 6 year / $100,005,425 contract with the Houston Texans, including a $10,000,000 signing bonus, $51,876,000 guaranteed, and an annual average salary of $16,667,57 and has since then (over the past 6 years) missed a combined 32 games due to injury with seasons consisting of 8 games missed, 11 games missed and 13 games missed ala he's missed a whopping 50% (half) of his possible games since signing his big contract (take the money and run Watt, lol)

    All while Jadeveon Clowney (since dating back to his rookie year injury of 2014) has only missed a combined 9 games throughout 5 years (2015-2019) meaning that Clowney has played in (including playoffs) 76 out of a possible 85 games (90% of games played since his rookie year injury compared to Watt only playing in 50% of his games since signing his mega contract).


    Comparing Jordan Jenkins to a Jadeveon Clowney is way worse than me mentioning Jadeveon Clowney getting top 100 (top 30's) votes.

    Wake me up once Jordan Jenkins starts to turn down offers of over $17,000,000 (per year).
    Wake me up when Jordan Jenkins doesn't have 0 Pro-Bowl selections (he's 0/4).
    Wake me up when Jordan Jenkins doesn't have 0 All-Pro honors (he's 0/4)
    Wake me up when Jordan Jenkins can make a top 100 ranking (it's been 4 years).
    Wake me up once Jordan Jenkins is able to record tackles for loss behind the line of scrimmage on a weekly basis.
    Wake me up once Jordan Jenkins is ever hit with a teams Franchise Tag due to not wanting to lose him to Free Agency (Houston Texans).

    And then and only then could you then mention Jenkins within the same breath as a Jadeveon Clowney (impact performer).

    Or better yet just go back and watch those top 100 videos and take notes on what professional football players have to say in regards to Clowney as being an absolute beast within the trenches of an NFL front seven (although, won't fit your agenda) and the'll let you know (instead of you believing your own thoughts).
     
  9. IIMeanDeanII

    IIMeanDeanII Well-Known Member

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    You're too thick in the head and I'm way too bored at this point.

    Good-Day, Mate.
     
  10. Dierking

    Dierking Well-Known Member

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    Okay, who woke up the gimp?
     
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  11. BroadwayAaron

    BroadwayAaron Well-Known Member

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    This thread is abysmal.
     
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  12. CotcheryFan

    CotcheryFan 2018 ROTY Poster Award Winner

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    Some things never change...
     
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  13. Footballgod214

    Footballgod214 Well-Known Member

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    Got ya. Of course I don't expect JoeD to trade our 2nd round pick to move up to grab Chase Young. But I was thinking, IF all 4 top lineman are gone by say the 7th or 8th pick, than Joe MAY trade up 3 or 4 spots to grab Young. Leaving both our 3rd for WRs.

    IF all the top lineman are gone, then coming away with the top pass rusher AND 2 good WR prospects wouldn't be horrible.

    But ya, I don't see this happening....just something to talk about that's different than "Take a lineman, than load up on WRs", "Take a lineman, then load up on WRs", "Take a lineman, then load up on WRs"!!!
     
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  14. Footballgod214

    Footballgod214 Well-Known Member

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    Fun highlite vid. I like the one play were he uses one arm to bullrush the lineman than, at the same time, uses the other arm to reach over and attack the QB...forcing a sack/fumble! He uses his hands/arms really good.
     
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  15. Footballgod214

    Footballgod214 Well-Known Member

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    I saw 'abysmal' and got excited for a quick second!
     
  16. MaximusD163

    MaximusD163 Well-Known Member

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    When was the last time he was around?
     
  17. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, for purposes of fantasizing, I understand. Hey, if ya can't dream, you can't be a Jets fan.
     
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  18. MaximusD163

    MaximusD163 Well-Known Member

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    With all of the multi year contracts now official, the Jets’ cap situation becomes a bit less vague.

    Just as devil’s advocate type of comment, there is enough cap space to sign Jadeveon Clowney should they so choose. Of course details depend on what he gets paid. Signing a multi year deal would give the jets enough cap flexibility that it might not even force any cuts. A 1 year deal gives no flexibility, but probably a lower annual value. A 1 year deal could force a cut of a player like Williamson, who frees up $6.5mm at a position already heavily invested in.

    The Jets also have enough cap space to trade for and sign Yannick Ngakoue if they wanted to. This would force at least 1 cut unless a player was included in the trade. The draft capital of getting Ngakoue is the primary question for not making this move.
     
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  19. joe

    joe Well-Known Member

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    Mentioned Rousseau last month:
    The thread to end it all...... WR vs OL

    But that's a year off and by then who knows what will have developed...




     
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  20. Footballgod214

    Footballgod214 Well-Known Member

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    He dropped in during the 2019 draft and made a thread on Q. Then he chimed in I think once a few months back.
     

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