Quinnen Williams being declared a bust already is nonsensical

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by Jonathan_Vilma, Feb 21, 2020.

  1. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

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    There are some positions where you come to expect immediate production and some sign of dominance even out of top picks. Edge rusher, offensive line, inside linebacker, and now wide receiver has turned into one of those positions as well.

    And then there are some positions that take longer to get accustomed to. Defensive tackle and cornerback namely. Positions where they slowly give you a little bit at a time to focus on. Defensive tackles in college, like Williams, routinely dominate with lesser skill and technique and physically dominate because of how much bigger, stronger, faster they are than college offensive lineman that won't sniff the league.

    I'll preface this all by saying I felt Josh Allen was the pick that we missed. We've been starved for an edge rusher.

    But Quinnen Williams compares extremely well to other interior rushers in their rookie seasons that have become good pass rushers and pocket pushers. Rookie year is all about stopping the run for them. Get used to the speed of the game. Get used to the conditioning that it takes to be a pro, and the more difficult blocking schemes (specifically zone blocking).

    Some examples of this below. Interior rushers that were just influenced to stop the run early in their career and saw their pass rushing skills evolve as their career went on.

    The kid showed some flashes. He needs to get better conditioned. But I expect some good production to come next year. He played in 13 games on the best run defense in the NFL.

    Thrown to the wolves. Nitpick away you heathens.
     
    #1 Jonathan_Vilma, Feb 21, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2020
  2. TwoHeadedMonster

    TwoHeadedMonster Well-Known Member

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    Cortez Kennedy (drafted 3rd overall, just like QW, one pick after the Jets selected Blair Thomas)
    1989 Seahawks - 23rd in rushing yards allowed, 19th in yards per attempt
    1990 Seahawks - 10th in rushing yards allowed, 9th in yards per attempt
    1.0 sacks

    Two years later, he registered a 14-sack, 4-forced fumble, 92 tackle season.

    I'm not predicting any of that for QW, but there is certainly precedent for players at his position to improve dramatically after their first year or two.
     
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  3. CotcheryFan

    CotcheryFan 2018 ROTY Poster Award Winner

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    I'm still disappointed that Maccagnan chose to take another interior DL over an edge rusher, but it's premature to declare Q a bust.
     
  4. NYJFOREVER

    NYJFOREVER Well-Known Member

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    Still insane the Jets didn't take Allen at 3 or move down to stockpile some picks and take Burns.

    The "Quinnen is a bust" crowd stems from the Jets not taking an edge when it was the obvious pick.
     
  5. Dierking

    Dierking Well-Known Member

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    kinda pudgy tho
     
  6. HomeoftheJets

    HomeoftheJets Well-Known Member

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    The problem isn't how Q played last year. It's that unless he's the next Aaron Donald (which is highly unlikely), even being a star isn't enough to have the impact of an edge rusher. For that reason, he was the wrong pick at 3 overall.
     
  7. FJF

    FJF 2018 MVP Joe Namath Award Winner

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    Respectable haircut
     
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  8. chandler

    chandler Well-Known Member

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    reasonable minds can differ about that IMO. Pushing the pocket and getting in the QB's face can have extreme value, even if it's not as sexy as an edge rusher.

    People have mentioned Cortez Kennedy, Warren Sapp and several others.

    Also, although Allen (and Burns) played well last year, there have also been a number of high picks at DE who truly were busts in every sense of the word, i.e., the true bust potential is higher IMO

    Most DT "busts" end up being someone that under-perform being a "mere" run stopper that could have been obtained in later rounds, and not the disruptive force hoped for on draft day

    I've seen a lot of DE busts who can do absolutely nothing and are a real liability on the field -- can't get to the QB and useless against the run.

    Having said that, I advocated for the Allen pick but i don't think it was nuts to go with a DT. I hope Q grows into a disruptive force
     
    #8 chandler, Feb 21, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2020
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  9. 101GangGreen101

    101GangGreen101 2018 Thread of the Year Award Winner

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    I liked Ed Oliver A LOT more, but to call Q a bust after his rookie year is highly premature.
     
  10. HomeoftheJets

    HomeoftheJets Well-Known Member

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    The fact that you have to go back to the days of Cortez Kennedy and Warren Sapp to make your case is telling. The NFL has changed into a passing league since then, and a run stopper or pocket pusher isn't as valuable as it used to be.
     
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  11. chandler

    chandler Well-Known Member

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    it's also the age of a quick release passing attack. And in the age of the quick release one can argue a DE is worthless too; you're better off with a roster of good CBs, and the path to the QB is shortest up the middle

    again i'm not saying you're wrong, just that i think there is a legitimate difference of opinion on this

    I would like to think that if we had the choice of Bosa and Q we would have picked Bosa. and as i said I advocated for Allen but don't think the Q pick was nuts simply because of his position. there is positional value at DT
     
  12. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

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    There's still value in stopping the run and the interior run in particular. The top two seeds in the NFL had the best two rushing attacks. The Titans beat two of the top three seeds in the AFC because they ran the ball at will off tackle.

    Williams has to be a pocket pusher to be a valuable asset moving forward. But it's not a foregone conclusion that be can't be, because he didn't rack up a ton of sacks.

    He needs to produce next year. But he was solid last year. And he still has tons of ability.
     
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  13. joe

    joe Well-Known Member

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    . .Fatso Blago WIlliams
    .
     
  14. Martin&theJETS

    Martin&theJETS Well-Known Member

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    Quinnen is a big ole’ space eating bitch
     
  15. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    Not a bust so far, but certainly not the best use of the #3 pick, regardless how he eventually turns out.

    The NFL is a passing league. This means the priority has to be securing a good (preferably great) passing attack, and creating a good (great) passing defense. While an exceptional DT could be considered a key element of the latter, DE/Edge guys that consistently get to the QB are more impactful. Given this, it again proves what an incompetent GM Macc was to not address these holes on the roster.

    Since QW has not shown that he's a bust, and still has a lot of potential, I would certainly entertain the right offer for him, but I wouldn't give him away.
     
  16. papapump

    papapump Well-Known Member

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    I expect him to move in a much more positive direction this year. His youth, and getting used to the NFL season made his rookie year a blur. Hopefully he dedicates himself to the weight room this year.
     
  17. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Well-Known Member

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    This is exactly right. Not really fair to Big Baby, but that is how many fans look at the pick. So to justify the #3 overall pick, he needed to play at a Pro Bowl level, and he clearly did not do that his rookie year. I don't think he will ever be a total bust like Vernon Gholston was. He will be a solid NFL player for many years to come. He may even be great.
     
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  18. FJF

    FJF 2018 MVP Joe Namath Award Winner

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    People keep claiming it’s a passing league but 8 of the top ten teams in rushing in 2018 and 7 of the top 10 teams last year made the playoffs.
     
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  19. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    Yep, you do need a ground game, but if you can't put points on the board in a hurry, you're probably not going to do very well.
     
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  20. jonnyd

    jonnyd 2007 TGG.com Funniest Poster Award Winner

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    I wanna take a nap on his belly
     

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