The Jet Model

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by NFLDayspast, Jan 14, 2020.

  1. Cman68

    Cman68 The Dark Admin, 2018 BEST Darksider Poster

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2002
    Messages:
    36,837
    Likes Received:
    30,473
    The Jet "Model" is a lot like checking for land mines with a pogo stick.
     
    #41 Cman68, Jan 20, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2020
    Br4d and NCJetsfan like this.
  2. NFLDayspast

    NFLDayspast Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2020
    Messages:
    108
    Likes Received:
    86
    No- I was talking about why tv and draft analysts always dub defensive players as the BPA. They are thinking credibility 5 years down the line for those assessments so they want to take the safe "can't miss" route.

    I wanted Mahomes. When they made the pick I saw Adams is a high character guy who immediately impressed me but he is a safety. He can only have so much impact at that position. My opinion is that if you do not have a young dynamic talent at QB then you automatically draft everyone that is available until you find one. I think it is a must in this league.

    I will throw this out there- Andy Reid is likely a Hall of Fame coach. I have much more faith in him to develop a guy like Mahomes than I did in Todd Bowles. Maybe the Jets realized they did not have the talent to properly coach and develop Mahomes.
     
    boozer32 likes this.
  3. papapump

    papapump Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2008
    Messages:
    1,924
    Likes Received:
    1,446
    Vinny was definitely north of average. Not a franchise QB, but a really good player, with a cannon for an arm.
     
    westiedog1 likes this.
  4. boozer32

    boozer32 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2006
    Messages:
    5,648
    Likes Received:
    3,829


    That's a great point.
     
  5. Footballgod214

    Footballgod214 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2005
    Messages:
    15,165
    Likes Received:
    6,021
    I think a good D is harder to field than a good O. Here's why.

    The O is the same 20 men rehearsing their same 100 plays over and over. Week after week. All season long. But the D faces a different O every week. The D has never seen those well rehearsed plays before, yet the D must be better, no matter where the hot knife strikes, anywhere on the field.
     
  6. NFLDayspast

    NFLDayspast Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2020
    Messages:
    108
    Likes Received:
    86
    I disagree- in the modern NFL if a play can be run a defense can anticipate it. Advance scouting and video have changed the game to where the fans and spectators may be surprised but nothing surprises the guys on the field.
     
    ColoradoContrails likes this.
  7. Br4d

    Br4d 2018 Weeb Ewbank Award

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2004
    Messages:
    36,670
    Likes Received:
    14,472
    Vinny was a decent durable QB who benefited tremendously from the Jets great o-lines and Bill Parcell's dedication to the north-south running game. Parcells was also very careful to provide a bunch of mid-range targets with good hands so there was generally an outlet available if needed. Similarly Parcells was focused on having backs who could catch an outlet pass. The Erhardt-Perkins offense that Parcells favored wanted a tough QB with a strong arm who could handle the heat and Vinny checked all of the boxes.
     
    ColoradoContrails likes this.
  8. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2016
    Messages:
    14,401
    Likes Received:
    21,477
    I disagree. I maintain that it's easier to "break" things than to make them come together. Offenses have to complete their plays to be successful, defenses just have to bust them up. A WR has to catch and posses the ball, a DB only has to get his hand on it to bat it away. I believe this is why it's harder to evaluate offensive talent than defensive talent, and why "BPA" is often a defensive player.
     
  9. Footballgod214

    Footballgod214 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2005
    Messages:
    15,165
    Likes Received:
    6,021
    *see 'play action'
     
  10. Footballgod214

    Footballgod214 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2005
    Messages:
    15,165
    Likes Received:
    6,021
    To a degree, you are right. A WR can drop a clean pass, a RB fumbles the handoff, a Center hikes the ball over a QBs head (geez, we've never seen that one before!). But those type of things happen very little, and when they do, the players are wearing green or brown. What's far more common is teams, especially those teams who don't wear green or brown, have a few 'go to' plays the defense can't stop, even when the defense knows what's coming.

    However, every DC wants a D talented enough to impose their will on the offense, versus 'read and react'. There have been very few DBs that could shadow a top WR anywhere on the field and prevent a catch (I can think of one). There have been very few pass rushers who could get to the QB with any regularity. I can only think of two, and both played in the same stadium. There may have been maybe 10 NTs that could dominate the middle all by their lonesomes.

    The 5 seconds b4 the ball is hiked is a chess match. Shotty drove us nuts then (and even now in SanFran) sending players in motion, sometimes 2, EVERY play. The QB watches how the D reacts. The QB looks for ques. Is it man? Zone? One high? 2 high? Who's blitzing? Who's dropping back? Who's stunting? Which players did we force to stay on the field due to our no-huddle? Who's tired? Who's limping? Who's a rookie? Who's a vet? The chess game is intense.

    But the D has their own concerns. Most offenses can run 10-15 plays out of the same formation. Guess wrong, and there's a WR running free down the middle of the field. Game over. And then there's play action. And wild cat. And reverses. And flea flickers. And draws. And bubble screens. And center screens. And TE screens. And RB screens. QB keepers. Who do we press at the LOS? Who do we dbl team? Who's playing m2m with zone behind them? Who's shadowing the QB? Who's blitzing? Who do we roll coverage to? What's the down? What's the distance? How many TOs do we have left?

    When TC opens, the D always has the advantage. As you pointed out, offense is choreographed. Offense is precision. An inch here. A step there. And any choreographed dance that's not rehearsed is easy to blow up. But as TC continues, plays are practiced, QB and WRs get on the same page, playbooks expand, the offense always pulls ahead. There's just too many variables, to many 'twists' a good OC can throw in that the D has never seen. A read and react defense can only be just so good.

    Rex was a genius at building an attacking defense who did what THEY wanted and could care less about what play the offense called. But he needed the players who could dominate. Revis KNEW the offense was running plays specifically to get their top WR open. But it didn't matter. QBs and lineman KNEW Lawrence Taylor was coming for them. But it didn't matter. And this last season, our d-line KNEW the offense was coming right at them on 4th and 1, and it didn't matter.

    The weaker a defense, the more zone they're forced to run with a bend but try not to break mentality. Limit the damage every play, so to speak. The better the defense, the more m2m they run with a d-line that can stuff the run and LBers who can get to the QB in under 3 seconds. Dominate! I'll take that!
     
  11. championjets69

    championjets69 2008/2009 TGG Darksider Award Winner

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2002
    Messages:
    17,353
    Likes Received:
    866
    After reading this I hurry out to my nearest hobby shop bought a jet model kit which will be better then any current NYJ is right now :mad:
     
  12. BomberJet

    BomberJet Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2002
    Messages:
    2,113
    Likes Received:
    1,123
    Watching the way the Chiefs came back big against a 49'ers D that was dominant up to this point tells me that their OL just completely wore them down.

    The games where they fell behind by double digits and came roaring back, their OL has to take much credit. With Joe Douglas, it looks like we have the right man in the cat bird seat to fix this problem very quickly. If they can somehow manage to fix both OT's and center for 2020 , put Edoga at guard , it's a good start to get the most out of Bell and the running attack and take much pressure off of Sam.
     
    ColoradoContrails likes this.
  13. LeonNYJ

    LeonNYJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2008
    Messages:
    5,002
    Likes Received:
    832
    Jets should have been investing in OL the moment Brick & Mangold started losing a step. There's no excuse that these two haven't been on the Jets since 2015/16 (Mangold played half of 2016) and were starting to decline for a couple years prior and yet the Jets still have yet to find anything remotely close to replace them. Zero first round investment in the OL set this franchise back years.
     
  14. dmw

    dmw Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2010
    Messages:
    2,615
    Likes Received:
    2,187
    With a great O-line and great WRs. Something the Jets don't have.
     
  15. Jedi mind tricks

    Jedi mind tricks Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2011
    Messages:
    2,059
    Likes Received:
    2,261
    Easy to say trade down but you gotta have someone to trade with.. and gotta get what you want in the trade. You can criticize the pick but you can't assume we 100% could've traded down
     
  16. IIMeanDeanII

    IIMeanDeanII Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2006
    Messages:
    6,499
    Likes Received:
    6,940
    I feel like the majority vote and conclusion is....

    Mangini was a genius.

    Who knew? Yikes. Ha
     
    Jonathan_Vilma likes this.
  17. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2004
    Messages:
    32,237
    Likes Received:
    30,553
    He definitely knew how to evaluate talent and was the architect of those AFC Championship games. He came with his own deficiencies as a coach (the dreaded 4th quarter prevent defenses) too.

    Maybe he just got lucky. I'm just kind of shocked he never landed ANYWHERE else after Cleveland. Talk about being blackballed. Probably a direct order from Belichick to the league to never hire him again.
     
    IIMeanDeanII likes this.
  18. BrowningNagle

    BrowningNagle Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2003
    Messages:
    25,900
    Likes Received:
    26,653
    I'm not shocked. He sucked in Cleveland too so he knew he'd never be a head coach again and went to television. Rex & Herman Edwards did the same after they failed elsewhere. they weren't blackballed
     
  19. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2004
    Messages:
    32,237
    Likes Received:
    30,553
    Rex has at least gotten a bunch of different interviews since being fired. I can't remember back to what happened with Herm but he's a head coach again. I don't even remember Mangini being considered as a coordinator or position coach.

    I don't think he was truly blackballed, I'm just surprised he never got any other run in any capacity with an organization.
     
  20. LogeSection2RowJ

    LogeSection2RowJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2009
    Messages:
    3,380
    Likes Received:
    2,311
    Did HE suck, or did THEY suck? There's a difference. I know he started off by removing all the old Browns legacy decorations, or something like that. Not wise.

    Mangini had a role with SF some years back. I'd like to see him get another shot. He should not have gone straight to Cleveland. He was young enough to hang back and wait for a better franchise to come calling. IMO, every fired coach should do that. The track record for jumping right into another HC job probably is not very good. Which leads me to the Jets rushing to hire Gase....
     
    ColoradoContrails likes this.

Share This Page