Another Mahomes take

Discussion in 'National Football League' started by NFLDayspast, Jan 20, 2020.

  1. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    I'm not so sure about that. Watson is a great leader and player, but imo his arm is not strong enough for NE winters. I think his play would have nose-dived every November and December.
     
  2. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

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    Brandon Weeden and Geno Smith had absolute cannons. Blaine Gabbert and Bryce Petty easily had NFL arms. It's an insult to call them rag-armed quarterbacks.

    There have been a lot of big-armed quarterbacks to come out of the Air Raid offense that flopped.

    You also say great character and work ethic as if 1) you have first hand experience with him as a scout and 2) he's an anomaly in that sense. There are tons of quarterbacks over the years that were willing to put in 12 hour days but just couldn't figure out how to move off of their first read.

    I'm sure he's a great kid and works hard and all that jazz. But honestly, I'm sure John David Booty and Jake Locker were too.

    He has a special arm. But there were a lot of skeptics because there have also been players with special physical assets from that offense that flopped hard.

    Obviously a lot of people missed what some saw in Mahomes including a lot of NFL scouts. But just because he succeeded doesn't mean that he was an Andrew Luck prospect and the majority of the football world missed that. He was a good, not great prospect who a lot of scouts and teams obviously weren't in love with.

    Now the point comes back to if he'd be successful if he was in a different situation. I think most quarterbacks who are destined to be good players; will be. But to act like what he's accomplished so far would've happened anywhere is asinine. He was a good talent put in an absolutely perfect situation with one of the top 5 coaches of our generation. And maybe the best offensive coach behind Sean Payton.

    I don't think it's unfair to say that he would've struggled a lot more in other situations than he has in KC with all of those playmakers including the best tightend in football for the past 3-4 years.
     
    #22 Jonathan_Vilma, Jan 22, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2020
  3. legler82

    legler82 Well-Known Member

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    If Mahomes went to USC, FSU or USC, he’s the 1st overall pick. The “experts” (air quotes) & fans who claim he was a “fringe 1st rounder” are idiots.
     
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  4. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

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    Regardless of your opinion on the intelligence of said people, that doesn't mean that wasn't a popular opinion around the 2017 draft. Three QB needy teams passed on him. Four if you count the Trubisky disaster.
     
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  5. chandler

    chandler Well-Known Member

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    We all know Mac had his eyes on Cousins for huge money. IIRC, for the draft, he was rumored to want Trubitsky. End of story on Mac. Any notion that he thought he could position himself for the next year for Darnold is beyond fantasy. He himself said he was surprised Darnold landed where he did; He moved to 3 to take whatever was leftover after Browns and Giants

    Personally, i had mixed feelings about Mahomes (for many of the reasons stated above) and less mixed feelings about Watson. But I'm not a GM and i don't have a scouting department that should have been working 24x7 on figuring this stuff out.

    The telling thing here is the Chiefs moved up to get him (sucks to be a Bills fan). The moment that happened i was like what do the Chiefs know that the rest of us dont -- because when they do something like this I knot they know something the rest of us don't just like when the Steelers make a move for a LB or OL

    My hope is that someday when we make a move, I have a similar feeling about the Jets FO
     
  6. Pepsiguy5

    Pepsiguy5 Well-Known Member

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    Looking back at the Jets not drafting Mahomes (or Watson) the one silver lining is that AT LEAST we ended up getting a really good player. Imagine if that was a Darron Lee or Ghoulston type pick instead?

    I was pretty ignorant of Mahomes at the time but I do remember having an uneasy feeling that Watson and his "non NFL" arm might end up being a hell of a lot more effective than I was reading about at the time. Especially after watching him lay waste to Alabama in the college championship game.
     
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  7. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Well-Known Member

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    All the Mahomes naysayers point to him having great offensive weapons, a great offensive minded Head Coach in Andy Reid, and an overall great situation in Kansas City. That is all true, but I am pretty sure Mahomes would be good anywhere he went, including the Jets. Maybe not this great, but still really good.

    I'm happy with Darnold and Adams. They are my 2 favorite current Jets, but would I package them in a deal for Mahomes straight up?

    [​IMG]
     
  8. Pepsiguy5

    Pepsiguy5 Well-Known Member

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    I'd also say I'm kind of looking forward to seeing what Jamal Adams can accomplish next year with Mosley & co hopefully at full strength and the defense hitting on all cylinders with everybody used to Williams system and a few Trumaine Johnson type non-conformists weeded out and unceremoniously tossed to the side.

    We might be sitting on something a little more special than we realize.
     
  9. ouchy

    ouchy Well-Known Member

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    In 2017 we had so many holes in our roster it wasn't a shock that we didn't take a QB. Why act like it was a huge misfire? You want a misfire - here is one.

    Remember when we traded 3 second rounders and a sixth rounder to pass over the QB who won the MVP of the league this season? We actually gave away a big part of our future to pass over Lamar Jackson.

    We could have had Jackson and 3 more second round picks going into this season. Its hard to imagine the team we could have been by going that route.

    The HOF is littered with QBs we should have taken. But none where we gave away 4 picks to pass over.
     
    #29 ouchy, Jan 22, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2020
  10. NFLDayspast

    NFLDayspast Active Member

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    My initial point in starting the thread was to show it was not a huge misfire. A misfire involves acting or failing to act- the Jets were committed to going in another direction at the time. In another thread the poster Emerson Boozer said the Jets were trying to recreate the Steele curtain of the 1970s. I think that applies here as I do not believe there was any set of circumstances they were drafting a QB that year.

    Your Jackson reference makes the point- the Jets did choose Darnold over Jackson. If you spoke to Maccagnan and Bowles before draft day they might not have known who Mahomes was because their philosophy was to focus on defense and neglect the offense.
     
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  11. WarriorRB28

    WarriorRB28 Well-Known Member

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    I don't doubt you did and I can remember a member on another board who did want the Jets to take Mahomes.

    That was a minority sentiment. By far the general consensus opinion at the time was to wait for the golden QB draft class of 2018.

    And I'll say it again Darnold could still end up having a better, longer career than Mahomes. Who can say right now with 100% certainty that it's not a possibility?
     
  12. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    I can accept your point that a lot of scouts and professionals overlooked Mahomes, but does that excuse them, or change the fact that he was in fact a special talent? For every person who saw Watson (and Lamar) and said "WOW! That's a special player!", how many didn't see that in Mahomes? And I wonder why? Simply because of the system he played in and the school/conference he played in. That's called "contempt prior to investigation".

    In any case, it makes it hard for me to accept your POV when you attache this false statement to it. Has ANYONE here claimed that he would have accomplished what he has "anywhere else"? Citation please. Otherwise, drop it. I certainly never claimed he would've duplicated his KC stats and accomplishments on the Jets. But I do firmly believe he would've done better than Darnold, even with the shit OL, etc. And in fact, I don't think he would've listened to Gase and his shitty game plans if they didn't work. All that said, he's in KC< and Sam is here, and I do believe Darnold will succeed as a FQB cqapable of winning a SB...IF he get the right coaching and support.
     
  13. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    Which other two?
     
  14. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    The same statement is true for Mahomes. Both were dissed by the "experts". Personally, I think Mahomes was a better fit for us than a more running-style QB like Lamar, and the Ravens are proven at building around their talent, unlike us who always try to force square pegs into round holes.
     
  15. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    I would roll the dice on Mahomes without a second thought, although I hope Darnold becomes great too.
     
  16. ouchy

    ouchy Well-Known Member

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    That may be true. But my point was we gave up a 34, 37, and 44 to pass over Jackson. Those are all very high picks. We didn't just not draft the MVP, we paid mightily to not draft him.
     
  17. NFLDayspast

    NFLDayspast Active Member

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    He is not the MVP if he comes here and with his style of play and the Jets lack of talent he might have very well been seriously injured this year.
     
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  18. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    I understand your point very well. MY point is that the same is true for passing over Mahomes who was the MVP in 2018.
     
    #38 ColoradoContrails, Jan 22, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2020
  19. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

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    Browns, Bills, us and the Bears. My bad I did include the Bears in that count.

    You can make an argument for the Jaguars as well but I guess they were sticking with Bortles at that point.
     
  20. Br4d

    Br4d 2018 Weeb Ewbank Award

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    I don't think drafting Pat Mahomes would have done much for the Jets w/o hiring Andy Reid as well and Reid was under contract in KC and going nowhere.

    Anybody who thinks the Jets as they were setup in 2017 would have done anything special with Mahomes or Watson isn't looking at the whole picture. Chan Gailey and Watson? If I squint a bit I could see that working out. The Jets had fired Gailey though. The braintrust around Mahomes or Watson in 2017 would have been Todd Bowles, John Morton and Jeremy Bates. Either of those young guys would have been on the field day one and we'd likely be debating their value as an NFL QB today.

    Just as a footnote: Brett Favre sucked in Atlanta. Then Mike Holmgren got his hands on him in Green Bay and he turned into a great player. Having a howitzer arm is no guarantee of anything in the NFL. Having the right guys guide you certainly helps though.
     

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