Thinking "outside the box" has hurt this franchise

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by NFLDayspast, Jan 20, 2020.

  1. NFLDayspast

    NFLDayspast Active Member

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    Lets be honest- the New York Jets are miserable failures when it comes to "outside" the box thinking.

    For me it started with Kotite drafting Brady and his famed two tight end set. At this time this formation had been rarely used since the 1960s. Essentially, the Jets wanted to employ a system not seen in a while as a strategy and it failed miserably. This is what I mean by "out of the box".

    Another example was acquiring Tim Tebow. Tebow might be one of the finest men ever to play in the NFL but at no point was his talent worthy of a second round pick. The Jets had a plan for Tebow that was a miserable failure and did not help the team win.

    The hiring of Todd Bowles. The NFL landscape changed dramatically and it became an offense oriented league. Teams throughout the NFL were hiring offensive minds with the plans to build dynamic offenses. What do the Jets do- they stop think about it and determine they will take a different route and employ the NFL model of the 1970s. Team brass spent almost every valuable resource on interior defensive linemen. We forget that these guys actually want to win and to stay employed because their actions show the opposite. This was not to screw with us- Jet management truly believed the best way to win a Super Bowl was to focus on interior defense.

    The latest example is the Trever Wesco pick. MaCagnan is actually the biggest example of trying to be unconventional and it blowing up badly. Everyone and their Aunt Bertha knew the Jets needed help on the line but instead of doing what a qualified competent general manager would do, that is looking at the board and selecting a project tackle or guard. Instead MaCagnan decides to select a tight end known for blocking.

    The shortest distance between two points is a straight line but it appears that for an entire generation Jets organization viewed this as a fallacy. The Jet organization laughed when questioned- like the joke was on us and we didn't know what they were doing. For a generation the Jets have failed miserably when it comes to taking gambles and thinking outside the box.

    Here is my question- starting with the Kotite Error until now- is there one "unconventional" move or "outside the box" decision made by the Jets that has actually worked out? Has there been one move that raised eyebrows that actually worked out?

    This is why I am getting close to walking away- the entire time I have been watching football I have seen the Jets attempt to be unconventional. The philosophy has failed and this rebuild better not entail the type of "outside the box" and unconventional thinking. Turn the damn page already.
     
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  2. HomeoftheJets

    HomeoftheJets Well-Known Member

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    I don't think that thinking outside the box is why the Jets are bad. There are other teams that think outside the box (Ravens with Jackson, 49ers and Titans building rushing attacks, Rams hiring McVay, etc.) who have done very well with it. And on the flip side, pretty much everything the Jets have done in the past several years, including but not limited to their attempts to think outside the box, has failed. IMO the main reason for these failures is the Johnsons don't know football, and they put their trust in people who don't care about the Jets. For example, the consulting firm that recommended Idzik, Casserly and Wolf who recommended Mac and Bowles, and finally Peyton Manning who recommended Gase. Something tells me, for instance, if Peyton were running his own team, he wouldn't hire Gase to coach it.
     
    #2 HomeoftheJets, Jan 20, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2020
  3. Acad23

    Acad23 Well-Known Member

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    Was Rex Ryan in or out of the box?
     
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  4. NFLDayspast

    NFLDayspast Active Member

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    I am a fan of Gase but I agree with you whole heartedly. It also goes beyond not be invested with the Jets. These firms have no clue about culture of the franchise at the time
     
  5. chandler

    chandler Well-Known Member

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    brandon moore was a converted DL -- that was outside the box and played out well

    Frankly i don't think they think outside of the box much -- unlike the Pat's use of QBs as slot receivers for example

    they just suck at drafting and developing

    Brady was kind of a copy cat; Jets were hoping for another Eric Green (another huge TE)
     
  6. MoWilkBeast

    MoWilkBeast Well-Known Member

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    The Jets problem isn't thinking out of the box. It's doing everything halfheartedly and only half committing to any plan. The team just never seems to follow anything through properly. They have an idea, dip their toes in the water and then change direction.
     
  7. HomeoftheJets

    HomeoftheJets Well-Known Member

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    I don't think that's the problem. Out of all the people we fired, do you think any of them would have succeeded if we gave them more time? I don't. I think the problem is who we hire, not when we fire them.
     
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  8. Ralebird

    Ralebird Well-Known Member

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    Pete Carroll.
     
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  9. HomeoftheJets

    HomeoftheJets Well-Known Member

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    Possibly. But at the same time, he didn't become great for another 20 years or so. Plus I was focusing more on the Johnsons than Hess, since Hess has no bearing on us going forward.
     
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  10. J-Raw24

    J-Raw24 Well-Known Member

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    I don't think any of our Johnsons era coaches have become better after they left here. Pete Carrol was Hess.... but that was the last one I can think of. We haven't had a good coach in so long.... I liked Rex but he had a big head and never had an OC worth mentioning. Even our GM have been bad for a while..... wow.... when the best thing you can talk about on the subject for 20 years is Tannenbaum and Rex.....
     
  11. Ralebird

    Ralebird Well-Known Member

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    Actually, there's almost nothing in the past that has any bearing on the Jets going forward.

    Further, having someone open up multiple new threads daily about the past serves no useful purposes either. Wasn't it formerly required to be a member for a month or so before being permitted to open new topics?
     
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  12. TwoHeadedMonster

    TwoHeadedMonster Well-Known Member

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    I didn't like Mangini at all, but I think he was building the kind of team he wanted, and was very close when he screwed up with the Favre situation. I think he would have improved the team if he had stayed on.
     
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  13. BacktoQueens

    BacktoQueens Well-Known Member

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    First thing Mangini did was run Mawae and Kendall out of town, because he didn't want his authority challenged by veterans.

    He had no idea how to build a team, and even less idea on how to get players to buy in.
     
  14. WarriorRB28

    WarriorRB28 Well-Known Member

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    No stability.

    They change GMs and HCs every four-five years.
     
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  15. BacktoQueens

    BacktoQueens Well-Known Member

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    I do think Tannebaum and Rex had the right idea of how to build a team in the Northeast.
    Control the LOS, be built to win in cold months, and play tough defense.

    That's what the Steelers and Ravens were doing with success as well, but with more consistently good drafting.

    Should have stuck with that formula, but with a better QB, and of course more consistent drafting.

    However this team always seems to flip the script and runs in circles, rather than establish a long term team identity.
    ie we are personality driven rather than organizational identity driven.
    No consistency.
    That's been a big problem imo, and it stems from lack of leadership beyond the GM position.
     
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  16. Br4d

    Br4d 2018 Weeb Ewbank Award

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    The Jets biggest failures are systemic. The organization consistently tries for quick fixes and then is left covering for the value the fixes cost when they fail.

    It's hard work to build a good football team and it's really hard when the underlying processes are flawed by a model that values marketing over player development.

    When your marketing team is doing a good job selling a bad team they're part of the problem, not the solution.
     
  17. CotcheryFan

    CotcheryFan 2018 ROTY Poster Award Winner

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    They've also prioritized the wrong positions. How many interior DL do we need?!!! Meanwhile, the last OL taken before round 3 was Ducasse in 2010. They passed on Allen and Burns last year when we really needed an edge rusher. They haven't selected a decent WR since taking Cotchery in 2004. The 2014 draft was a goldmine for WR's and we get the ones who were out of the league in short order. And as much as I like Adams, QB was a far bigger need and 2 good prospects were available.
     
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  18. Quinnenthebeast

    Quinnenthebeast Well-Known Member

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    We have to opt for quick fixes because we simply can’t commit the resources to building the right way. Take a look at our second round picks and you get a good idea. We draft a defensive linemen who’s the “best prospect ever” and then find ourselves scrambling to fix other more important positions with home run plays. Ducasse, Hackenberg, Devin Smith, Polite, etc all were high ceiling and low floor picks. Macagnan loved doing this with Osemele and Spencer Long to get quick fixes on the offensive line. Instead of drafting BPA, we should be looking at the critical positions first before we look at beefing up very replaceable positions.
     
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  19. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    It isn't that the can't "think outside the box", it's that they can't even think inside the box. In short, they don't have, and have never had, a blueprint of what a winning team looks like in general, and what they want that winning team to look like. And the reason is the have owners who are so clueless, they can't even hire people to create that blueprint for them.

    Maybe Douglas is finally that guy. We have to hope he is, but Jets history argues otherwise. But until the get their blueprint, all the changes they make are just rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.
     
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  20. TwoHeadedMonster

    TwoHeadedMonster Well-Known Member

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    Jason Fabini, too. And Jay Fiedler. Sowell, Gardner, Ty Law... oh, and traded John Abraham!
    I'm sure that had nothing to do with the Jets being $25 million over the cap and coming off a 4-win season.

    The fact that he signed a bunch of veterans, like Kimo von Olehoffen, Patrick Ramsey, Andre Dyson, Tim Dwight, Trey Teague, Anthony Clement, etc. doesn't undercut that argument at all, nor the fact that the Jets were miraculously competent in the draft during the Mangini years (outside of Gholston), drafting Ferguson, Mangold, Revis, David Harris, etc.
     

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