Sorry, but 96 mil contract was before 2015 year, when he completed a season with 93 rating. At that point he was considered franchise QB. Trade with Titants where they got him for 2 mil was in 2019 and Miami paid 5 mil to get rid of him. He came to Titans to back up Mariotta. He was not consdiered franchise QB. These are not my analysis but just facts based on the concrete actions by the teams. Saints paid WAY more to us for Bridgewater and then paid him more. But I think you are missing the point here. Tannehill wasn't bad in Miami. His average rating over 4 seasons was like 93 after rookie and sophomore seasons. That is a good average, and is better than any SINGLE season a Jet QB had since 2002. He then follows it up with 118 rating this year. You can spin this however you want, but Gase had a legit QB. You may say not elite, but if you at least can not acknowledge the guy was legit talent based on his performance over last 5 seasons (97 average rating), you are just being dishonest. And how did Gase do on offense with this legit talent? #24 and #31 overall offensive ranking. That's pretty shitty ranking when you have a legit QB. With Ryan hurt in Miami? #29 overall. How did he do for Jets with Sam? Worst #32 overall. During the 6-2 half season, which was successful? #27 overall. That's last 4 years. Pretty crappy offensive output compared to other coaches, wouldn't you say? He is supposed to be a HC, and he would not even fire his OC and line coach, who clearly failed and didn't help much. Do you think this body of work on offense (while Williams did really well on defense) deserves another chance?
You're beating the dead horse and contradicting yourself left and right in doing so. You've also failed to acknowledge how much of an outlier season that this one was. The Saints traded a third rounder for Teddy Bridgewater. The Titans traded a fourth rounded for Tannehill . To say they paid way more is a hyperbolic exaggeration. You're talking all about consensus about being a franchise quarterback right now in your previous posts and then you backtrack those statements. He was considered a franchise quarterback by at least one organization. Then they dumped him because they were afraid he was another Andy Dalton despite himself playing decently. They were trying to avoid the Quarterback hell of finishing 6-10 to 9-7 every year and never know which mark they'd fall into. The fact that you believe that this is just the norm for Tannehill is frightening. He had a great season under perfect conditions. Let's see if he can continue to replicate it. Henry is a free agent and so is their right tackle Jack Conklin. I'd imagine both are much higher priority than Tannehill is. So we shall see exactly what the Titans think of him this offseason. I imagine it'll be a short term 2 year/$32-36 million deal with half guaranteed. Similar to what teams want to give to Fitzpatrick and the likes.
You are right, I am beating a dead horse, since you are failing to grasp a basic concept here, not seeing the point and are not answering the question I posted. You are not even able to understand that someone who is considered a franchise QB on his 3d year in 2015 may not be considered one in 2019. That when you have to pay a team 5 mil to take a QB, and he only costs that team 2 mil, he is not considered a franchise QB at that time by anyone. And by the way, getting 4th and 7th rounder for 6th rounder and 5 mil is quite a bit less than what we got for Teddy, which was straight 3d. The point there, which I hope you can see, was that Teddy was not considered a franchise QB and Saints gave even more that Titans for Ryan. Hence Ryan was not considered a franchise QB n 2019, it really is not that hard to understand. Let's see what he gets this year - I can bet it will be more than 18 mil over two years guaranteed.
The money obviously had to be worked out. Bridgewater was on a one year contract, so there was no money to work out. He did garner more in the trade. But you said WAY more. I suspect you weren't completely aware of the trade details of either when you made that statement. We'll see what he gets. I'd like to see where this consensus is that he's now a franchise quarterback. What do you think he'll get on the open market? What's the question you posed? Why did Gase's offense under perform in Miami? I'm not sure. I don't know all of the intricacies of those offenses or what sort of plays were being called when, in what situations. I didn't watch all 48 games. But neither do you. So let's not act like you have anything to back your statements up on other than rankings.
Teddy is way better than Pansyhill. The Saints May want to consider making the switch now from Brees to Bridgewater so they don’t lose him
I'm "liking" your post because you did what I requested: gave reasons you think Gase is a good HC. I disagree (what a surprise, right?), again based upon his record, but I also disagree that he did a good job with his adjustments. Yes, I DO agree that he did try to make some, and I'll give him some credit for that, but they were of the "too little. too late" variety. On other things, like figuring out how to use Bell better, or trying to use Powell and Montgomery more. Maybe he did try, maybe there was some reason he couldn't, but until I hear a good explanation, I'll hold it against him. I won't bother trying to convince you with counter arguments, since we're obviously both fixed on our positions, but I appreciate the reasoned analysis, even if I don't fully agree with it. Thanks.
The reasonable explanation is that the adjustments didn't work because the line was still so bad that it didn't matter. So to the eye not looking for it play to play the adjustments appear to not be there. When in fact they were there, but they didn't succeed. I will agree that it could've been done quicker than it was. If I get some motivation this offseason I'll try to break down some tape and post it.
Please do. I still think Gase is a hot bag of dog crap. But I also don't mind your opinion. Rather talk about it than argue like most. That said his adjustments always felt late and like they were completley wrong. As you said though the line was really bad, but the year before was the same line except Carpenter and Winters, one of which wasn't very good anyway. I fail to believe Carpenter was so good he made the line that much better, but I could be wrong. I think the fact most the "Fire Gase Now" crowd is missing is that we cannot honestly prove anything without upgrades at almost every position on offense. I think he's still bad because I watched a lot of Miami last few year and Chicago before that. But we have to be sure.
The Season is done..but Gase is as rich as f@ck and we have to wait at least 7 more months to see how this plays out. Frankly, I don't care about the Tanyhill/Gase saga ...I do care about SD/Gase/Douglas one and will be utterly despaired if AG starts off next Season 1-4 we miss playoffs and the Johnsons do nothing but take the Fans $
You are brushing aside important facts like they are nothing. For example, "the money obviously had to be worked out". No, it is not obvious that money had to be worked out in such way that Miami ended up paying Titans 5 mil to take Tannehill. And yes, it is way more when you have to pay 5 mil to get 4th rounder as compared to getting 3d without paying a penny. Understand that when one team is paying 5 mil to the other in return for a 4th rounder, and that team ends up paying a QB only 2 mil for the year to be a back up, we are not talking about someone perceived as a franchise QB. We will find out what Titans will pay him after this season, but I expect that to be a huge franchise QB deal, a double of what you suggested, maybe triple. That aside, the bigger point that you are ignoring though is that this season showed that Tannehill was not just a scrub whom Gase made look good. This is relevant, because when we hired Gase, even though his offense in Miami was shit, he was credited with making a scrub Tannehill look good. This credit now goes away as Tannehill did even better without Gase and looking at Ryan's body of work with and without Gase over the last 5 years, culminated this season, he is no scrub. In the meantime, Gase finished once again with terrible offensive rankings - just like he did for last 4 years, two of which with at least a decent QB, even if not elite. Are you able to acknowledge this fact and answer the following questions I already asked but you ignored? And please do not brush aside his rankings as nothing - this is quite telling when a coach fails year after year, doesn't matter how many games any of us watched. I will repeat: Pretty crappy offensive output compared to other coaches, wouldn't you say over 4 years? He is supposed to be a HC, and he would not even fire his OC and line coach, who clearly failed and didn't help much, is that a good idea? Do you think this body of work on offense (while Williams did really well on defense) deserves another chance? Isn't it better to perhaps let Gregg be HC to preserve some continuity and clean up these who have failed on offense year after year?
A.No matter how bad you want it to be..Miami is not New York. Totally separate situation,role & organization that Gase was in B. Young HCs get better.Maybe not as quickly as fans & critics would like..but they get better.They learn from their mistakes & make adjustments. C. Its beyond ridiculous to ignore how crappy the Jets roster is esp on the offensive side of the ball. So how in the world is it a concrete fact that Gase is doomed for failure when history says young coaches get better & the roster couldnt really get much worse than it was this past year?
Roster could be worse: heck other coaches we had didn't even have a luxury of a guy as talented as Sam at QB. Sanchez, Smith, you name it, we had it. And I am not ignoring the roster, but failures of our coach on offense for 4 years in a row (not just this year) is what has me concerned. And it doesn't help that the biggest credit I thought Gase earned offensively in the last 4 years, which is making a scrub QB Tannehill look good, turned out false, since Ryan proved he is no scub. Hard to look at anything positive on offense, but yeah, let's hope Gase is young and miraculously turns out a 4 year pattern of failure. Interestingly, last year we really considered 3 coaches: McCarthy, Gase, Rhule. All three will be HCs next year in NFL. Would be interesting to see how each one does. Gase had better step up.
You're creating an argument that I never touted. I never said he was a scrub nor did I say Gase made him into a superstar. But he had the better two years of his career despite missing the end of his first year, his full second year in the system and then the middle six weeks of his third season. You're kind of just jumbling your hatred of him all together and putting words into my mouth. Which is all good, but it's pointless to have any sort of debate like that.
I didn't put any words in your mouth at all. I just pointed out a couple of things that happened this year, where I personally felt made Gase look pretty bad. That includes emergence of Tannehill, whom I thought Gase made look good, but turned out not to be the case as Ryan proved to be a legit QB this year, and another poor offensive season (4th in a row, even during 6-2 winning stretch, this time absolute worst in NFL). I then asked you several specific questions, which you don't want to answer. That's fine as well, we can keep our opinion, and I hope you turn out to be right and Gase does deliver next season and takes the Jets to play-offs with good offensive output. I also really like him to outperform MCCarhty and Rhule, two other guys we chose him over who are also HCs now. I am just concerned based on the aforementioned events of this season, and I took out some frustration here.
Mccarthy and Rhule turned the Jets down, not the other way around and it was probably a good decision for them since we had Jets fans wanting to fire Adam Gase after only 3 weeks as coach
Rhule "turned down" the Jets because they tried to force him to hire a staff. That's not the same as outright turning down the job. And then of course, after forcing the best candidate to hire people he didn't want, they handed the keys over to someone who has proven for 5 years now that he's incompetent as an NFL offensive coach and let him bring in whoever he wanted. Pretending like the same thing would have happened with Rhule as what's happening with Gase is just off base. I'd say 75% of what drives most logical people to dislike Gase is the fact that he hasn't been able to produce anything other than a bunch of bottom 5 offenses and a fluke playoff berth in 4 years as a head coach. We know what he is. Rhule is a guy that has gone to two separate programs and pulled a complete 180 with both. There's precedent for him being able to turn things around rather than make them worse, which Gase did in Miami. Of course you're going to say that there's a difference between college and the pros, no shit, but the point remains that there is a WHOLE lot more that says to be patient with Rhule than Gase. Also let's just bypass the whole childish routine where you pretend I said Rhule is the greatest coach of all time like you do with Tannehill every time someone brings up how he get better once he got out from under Gase.
Matt Rhule has 19 wins total at Baylor. 19-20. Here they are 2017: @Kansas (1-11: worst D1 team in the nation, just behind Baylor who also finished 1-11) 2018: Abeline Christian (Div 2 I think) UTSA (Div 2 I think, maybe 1AA, who knows) Kansas (worst div 1 team in the nation) ^^should those wins even count? Kansas St. (5-7, bill Snyder's last year, program struggled) Oklahoma State (hey, a good win kinda, although a down year by Okie State standards, 7-5) Texas Tech (he beat 5-7 Kliff Kingsbury in his last college game ever, lol) Vanderbilt (6-7, they were good back in the 1920s though) 2019: Stephen F. Austin (Div 2 I think, apparently they named a college after him) UTSA again (Div 2 I think, maybe 1AA, who knows) @ Rice. (a rare road win for Baylor, against a 1AA team I think) Iowa State (7-6. not bad, although I wouldn't call it a win you hang your hat on) @Kansas State (8-5. Rhule's best win????) Texas Tech (4-8, program struggling) @ Okie State (8-5. maybe this is Rhule's best win??) West Virginia (5-7 program struggling) @TCU (5-7, program struggling) Texas (8-5. not your father's Longhorns team, but ok, good win.) @ Kansas (3-9. a rare year where they aren't the worst team in Div 1, but hardly an impressive win) And that's it. the dude has 19 wins in 3 years. 8 of them against either horrible Kansas or slapdick Div II teams.I'm not gonna count them. So he wins 11 real games in 3 years and he's the guy we should be clamoring for. We should give him all the control nah, Im good
If you can't figure out why a guy who went to two different college football programs, broke them down then rebuilt them both within three years is a top candidate for an NFL coaching gig, football may not be for you.
