I actually think Wesco is going to surprise some people this year . I’m curious as to what Gase has in store for a player like him. Seems like a good blocker. Had a TD called back for a penalty. I’m not saying he’s going to be all-Pro but I’m expecting good things from him. Polite on the other hand doesn’t give me the same positive jive...it’s just preseason but I don’t like what I’ve read or seen so far.
I think wesco is struggling with the playbook. He’s look a little lost out there. Even on the touchdown he had to be directed where to line up. I think it’s going to take some time for him to find his way. Agee about polite.
playing devils advocate here. had mac focused on o-line early on, we'd be hearing fans complaining about our shitty safeties and shitty d-line, and shitty QB. Mac did something for the jets nobody else has been able to do for us probably since 1983 and that's draft us a FQB. and even then in 1983 we semi-whiffed becuase while ken was good, he wasn't marino who was drafted 3 picks later and many expected the jets to take marino over ken. Mac landed us a FQB that was largely ignored by the jets. despite not having a QB for pretty much 30 years the jets refused to use a 1st round pick on a QB. O-brien left the jets in 1992 and we didn't draft a QB for 8 years when we drafted chad who was good but had bad injury luck. when that was over in 2008 we traded for a 40 year old favre and used our 6th overall pick on vernon gholston, one of the biggest busts in NFL history. Matt ryan was drafted 3rd overall that year and has been a top 10 QB his career. had our GM at the time traded up to land ryan we would have had a much different franchise. jow flacco was also drafted that year as a mid round pick and has been a medicore QB but did win a SB and may have helped us win one as he was much better then sanchez who made back to back AFC champ games. then in 2009 we traded up for sanchez which didn't work out. Now for the 1st time probably since joe namath, the jets have a young QB that looks like he'll be a perennial pro bowler and a real FQB. he deserves credit for that and it did cost him 3 2nd rounders to pull that off
I agree totally. Give credit where credit is due. Mac delivered us Darnold - a sly trade - and a little luck on draft day but everybody needs a little luck. I think in the future Mac will be remembered more fondly than he is today. Mac had some good characteristics . Keen trades, some decent under the radar FA signings, managed the cap very well. He also hit on just about every first rounder - you can’t say that about too many Jets GMs. As I said if we went back in time before FA and the salary cap Mac would be an up and coming genius. Unfortunately today’s NFL is different. He simply did not know how to run a successful draft after the obvious top pick. He was always trading down, trading down , accumulating quantity instead of quality. Most of his trade downs if not all failed. But yes he did do some good and the Jets have a solid young nucleus thanks to his work.
If Darnold is indeed the savior, Mac will be remembered first and foremost as the guy who drafted him. People will call out the rest of his tenure wasn't good, but even they'll forgive him. Whereas if Darnold isn't a good QB, Mac will be remembered as one of the worst GMs in Jets history. Even Idzik only set the Jets back 2 years, Mac will have have set them back 5.
I'm not certain that your statement that Idzik only set the Jets back two years is accurate. His drafts were so bad that he may have set the team back 4-5 years, but even if it is only two years, he was only here two years. Trying to equate Mac with Idzik is inaccurate and unfair imo. At least Mac did some good things and was good in some aspects of the job. Idzik was a total clusterfuck and did little, if anything right.
In addition to the bold part, he didn't seem to realize the importance of the OL. There were a number of OL prospects in rounds 2-4 he passed on over his 5 drafts.
yup fully agree with you on that as far as people will look back and think much higher of mac then they do now. unlike idzik lol also yup he managed the cap great and did good in free agency and with trades. as far as poor performance after the 1st round, i only half agree. yeah he has some major whiffs like back to back WRs (3rd and 4th) that both failed. and a couple of failed QBs (petty and hack). but the reality is. a majority of draft picks across the NFL fail. we tend to only look at it form our view but if you look at the league average and not focus on the 1 guy we could have had that the other 30 teams missed out on too, his record is above average. it might not be top tier but it's not poor either. some good late round players he found are shell (5th round solid starting RT better then the 1st rounders that year), herndon (4th round TE, during the hindsight draft he was listed in the 1st round), jenkins (3rd round OLB who's been a solid starter as a run stuffer and pas rusher) lac edwards (7th round punter who's started every game and been above average) peake (7th round WR who been a special teams ace for us), Maye (2nd round FS who's been above average), Robby Anderson (UDFA WR who's been a starter for us since year 2 and was on a pro bowl pace the 1st 3/4 of the season in 2017). that's some good finds in 3 years after the 1st round. On top of that he had to give 3 2nd rounders to land sam. for the o-line he just used a 3rd rounder on an OT who may be good. we won't know for a few years. a 5th rounder for the other OT who's been solid. slid back 50 picks from the 5th round to the 6th round for osemele a pro bowl LG, resigned winters who is an above average OG we drafted in the 3rd round in 2013, and made a trade for a LT (7th rounder IIRC for clady) who was ok for 1 year then signed beachum. Really the only thing he didn't address on the o-line was C but he took care of the other 4 positions very well without using any 1st or 2nd round picks. and with those picks we have darnold, adams, maye, leo, Q then pair it with FA additions like bell, crowder, mosely etc. all this in 4 years as a GM and only 3ish on the rebuild. no other jets GM in history was even remotely this good for us. I have high hopes for douglas and hope he can be better then mac and continue building our team, but realistically he was handed a perfect situation and all he has to do is not fuck it up.
IMO Idzik only set the team back two years because the team he left behind was pretty much the same cheap, undertalented team he inherited. It wasn't like he blew a window to win with a talented group of players. And he did some things right. He drafted Winters and Enunwa (plus Richardson made a Pro Bowl), and he brought in Ivory and Decker. He also didn't blow much cap space on free agent busts. Finally, he failed at getting us a QB because Geno was a bust, but the best ones he passed on were Carr and Garoppolo, so it wasn't like he had the opportunity to draft a savior. Whereas if Darnold fails, Mac will have drafted Petty, Hack, and Darnold and passed on Mahomes and Watson. Right now, most Jets fans believe Darnold is the savior, so the Mac hate is tempered. But if Darnold busts (not that I think he will, but anything's possible), Mac's legacy won't be pretty. TLDR: Idzik was a clusterfuck, but if Darnold fails, Mac will also be a clusterfuck and one who had and took the opportunity to do more damage than Idzik. If Darnold succeeds, then Mac will first and foremost be the guy who drafted him.
We were well below average in rounds 2-5. And if you want to say that he cut his losses if his picks didn't perform, fine. But, why did have so many losses to cut in the first place?
You are trying to make it seem like Darnold was Mac's only saving grace in an otherwise sea of Idzik-level disaster, and there's just no truth behind that. Idzik was the worse GM we've had in the 4 decades I've been watching this team. I mean every single draft pick save Enunwa in '14 was out right terrible, and he was even worse in FA, made bad trades, threw his coaching staff under the bus, showed horrible leadership, didn't do much to re-shape the FO, couldn't find even a backup level QB.....pretty much terrible across the board. There really is no comparison to be had here at all.
Idzik was a salary cap guy and had no business being in a GM’s seat. He was totally over matched. Somebody here a couple of weeks ago found an old article stating he was a scout at some point. I don’t know what it is with the Jets and these GM candidates with “ scouting “ experience. It seems as long as they see the word “scouting” on the resume they automatically qualify. There are thousands of scouts employed in the NFL. How many are truly scouting geniuses where they uncover all kinds of all pro talent ? Take Max for instance. He scouted for the Houston Texans? Did the Johnsons look at his resume , see Texans, sit back and rub their hands - “ “Oh boy they have JJ Watt!”....I mean it may sound comical but simply being a “scout” doesn’t really mean much.
Overall I agree, but mid round picks were a problem for Mac. Odd that he scored so well on UDFA's but couldn't find much in those rounds. Wish he would've gambled on a few Olineman in there. But overall he made a lot of good moves here for the Jets, and did a decent job. I think he'll land somewhere as Dir of Player Personnel, especially if this team performs well.
Tannebaum was a cap guy, and a wheeler and dealer, which at least gave him some qualification, although not a football guy per se. Idzik was known primarily for being an Administrator, and only had like one season in a pseudo-scouting role which was solely to build the GM resume. Totally wrong person, and wrong direction for this team. Mac and Douglas actually were lifelong scouts, with Douglas also having college playing experience, so I think we are slowly getting closer and closer to a 'football guy' running this team. With clueless owners, you need a lot of football guys shaping that FO. fingers crossed.
the way i look at it is mac sucked at picking WRs. it's really the only thing he whiffed on. I'm willing to give a pass for the hack and petty picks due to QB desperation and the way the draft fell. outside of WR though macs done good picking other positions all over the draft and found a few gems. like for example i shit on the raiders in the 2018 draft for taking kolten miller LT in the middle of the 1st as a huge reach. miller failed badly as a rookie. it's a wasted pick reaching for a position out of need especially when it doesn't pan out. instead of miller they could have had trumaine edmunds, derwin james, leighton vanderesch to name a few. they also shelled out big time for trent brown in free agency to play OT as well. Don't get me wrong, i agree o-line is very important and if mac would have passed on one we should have taken I wouldn't be happy, it's just our draft picks have been high and no OTs were worth taking when we picked so it was either reach out of need or search elsehwere. he did do some mid round gambles on guys like shell and trading for osemele. he also drafted jarvis harrison in his 1st draft at C who didn't pan out but still. not to mention he did try to trade up for larry tunsil as well when he started sliding down the draft due to his weed video. it's not like mac ignored the o-line completely. he also inherited a team that had a stud LT and stud C on the tail end of their career mixed in with a good G, a crappy G and a crappy RT he had to address 1st.
Cimini said Polite is barely going to make our 53 man roster as a 3rd rounder and it might be a while until he dresses for a game. Not sure how to take this given the fact Cimini is Manish levels bad at this point but its out there. Polite isn't making an impact on our season this year and Wesco definitely isn't, that dude just looks lost when he's on the field.
Whiffing on Mahomes and trading draft capital in the hope that both Cleveland and the Giants passed on Darnold doesn't get you credit. A clerk who wins the power ball lottery isn't a financial genius.
There's a lot of good stuff in this post. One other thing (and I am not an Idzik fan) but he at least came in with a vision (Seattle 2.0); his execution failed. To this day I don't know what Mac's was. I still don't know if he was a defense first; offense first; or balance guy. Forget about the principles he was emphasizing one layer down. Idzik found a home in Jacksonville with Marrone (who we pass on probably in part to Mehta's hatchet job) and has been to an AFC final, and judging from last night they look real good (J.Allen is a beast!)
I could see Wesco getting a lot of time as a H back type roll being moved all over the field. He might not show up on the stat sheet but he could have a huge impact in the running game and be a big upgrade over Tomlinson. Although Tomlinson might stick because of his impact on special teams. Although, Brown fills the same role and I doubt Tomlinson can duplicate what he did last year in the return game.
