Jets Hire GM Joe Douglas

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by King Koopa, Jun 7, 2019.

  1. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    I remember seeing that, but I also remember seeing a conflicting version of that. It went that Mac's original plan A was to draft a QB in the draft. Then when Cousins became available, that became Plan A, and drafting a QB became plan B. When Cousins wasn't interested in signing with the Jets, then drafting a QB went back to Plan A. Either way, it really doesn't matter, but I definitely remember seeing this alternate version of what Mac was planning to do.
     
  2. Jeti

    Jeti Well-Known Member

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    Speculation on you part, read the entirety of the article and it paints the picture for you.

    The article states Heimerdinger began talking to Dodda for a few weeks and then went to Ballard and told him we needed the pick. Seems like Macc and CJ simply signed off.

    No where did Macc do anything other than set plan A and plan B, etc...

    At the end of the day Macc wanted Cousins the most and if he had it his way Darnold wouldn’t be here.
     
  3. Jeti

    Jeti Well-Known Member

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    You can’t read raLebird.

    I said Macc didn’t orchestrate the trade, he’s getting credit for the trade when Heimerdinger is the one who made the trade possible.

    In that case Idzik is the reason we have Darnold.

    He trade Revis for the first we used on Sheldon who was used to get the 2nd we added in the Darnold trade.

    All hail Idzik and Macc.

    Stop trolling loser. Hold the L and move on.
     
  4. Jeti

    Jeti Well-Known Member

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    raLeBird has a full article at his disposal and still can’t handle that I’m right.
     
  5. Ralebird

    Ralebird Well-Known Member

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    Your article said the Jets had a plan a and plan b. It does not say Heimerdinger had any plans at all. He was a pawn in the system just doing the job his bosses told him to do. You can make up whatever scenario you want to but that doesn't mean it is correct

    The more you attempt to add to your scenario the farther down the rabbit hole you go. Idzik, Richardson and Revis were not involved according to anything, anywhere.

    Prove me wrong.

    And the name calling is juvenile and counterproductive and should qualify you for a seat in the corner.
     
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  6. Ralebird

    Ralebird Well-Known Member

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    Whichever way it shook out, it's clear the Jets, as a team, had a plan, or two, or three. They worked their plans, rather than simply letting everybody in the office freelance as another poster would have us believe. I don't understand why the dearly departed Mr. Heimerdinger is being praised so highly in this thread.
     
  7. Jeti

    Jeti Well-Known Member

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    What do you mean Idzik wasn’t involved? He acquired the player that we traded for a 2nd round pick that was used in the deal. Since we’re just giving credit out now let’s give Mangini and Tanny credit for making sure we moved up for Revis who was used to get Sheldon who was used to the 2nd that was added into the deal for Darnold.

    It literally says Heimendinger and Dodds began the process of working out a trade. It literally says Heimendinger contacted Ballard and told him we needed the pick.

    Why are you ignoring that?

    I don’t care what Macc’s plan was, if he had it his way Cousins would be a Jet.

    Are you that damn dense that you cannot comprehend both what I’m saying and what the article says? You cannot be that dense, no one can be that dense without trolling.

    Read the article and stop trolling.

    And last but not least hold the L, raLLLLLLebird.
     
  8. Jeti

    Jeti Well-Known Member

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    The conversation between Heimerdinger and Dodds gets the wheels turning on the latter.

    That colors the conversation, with the second-rounder from the Richardson trade an essential piece to pulling off the Jets’ goal of holding on to all future first-round picks.

    Heimerdinger and Dodds leave Mobile with an agreement to keep talking. And thus, the Jets accomplish a goal.

    Heimerdinger and Dodds meet for a drink at the JW Marriott bar in Indy. Heimerdinger inquires if other teams have asked about the third pick. Both leave with the idea of continuing talks if the Jets’ pursuit of Cousins fails.(Cousins was always option #1)

    Before any of that, Heimerdinger calls Dodds in Indianapolis: “We’re gonna need the pick.”

    On Thursday, March 15, Dodds passes Heimerdinger off to Ballard, and the deal is done early Saturday. The Jets send their slotted second-rounders for 2018 and ’19, plus the Richardson second-rounder, to Indy to move up from 6 to 3, knowing there are three QBs they’d value there. Maccagnan and Heimerdinger call Johnson for his sign-off. It’s not hard to get.

    All quotes showing that Heimerdinger pulled off the trade and even still til this day we have to thank Gettlemen for passing on Darnold.

    But yeah let’s thank Macc for Darnold.

    GTFOH.

    *Drops Mic*
     
  9. Jeti

    Jeti Well-Known Member

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    Lol right
     
  10. Attackett

    Attackett Well-Known Member

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    Mac certainly gets credit for presumably putting the Jets in the best position QB wise then they’ve been in a far long time. The point that the trade up was Plan B though is a good one and we should all be thanking our lucky stars that Cousins wanted Minnesota and Minnesota wanted Cousins.
     
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  11. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    By this time next year, we will have forgotten about Maccagnan, except for trivia challenges.

    Long live Joe Douglas!
     
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  12. HomeoftheJets

    HomeoftheJets Well-Known Member

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    I was one of Mac's biggest detractors on here, but if Heimerdinger negotiated a trade, it was at Mac's direction. Or at the very least, Mac signed off on it. What do you think, Heimerdinger went rogue? And then you go slinging insults. You're better than that.
     
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  13. Jeti

    Jeti Well-Known Member

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    You’re speculating whether or not Mac told him to do anything.

    All we know from the details is that Heimendinger led the negotiations and struck the deal in which CJ signed off on.

    ralebird has the article at his disposal and continues to miss that point. So either he’s trolling or he’s dense. Either way I’ve proven my point(as I always do)

    Thank you Heimendinger and Gettlemen for Darnold.
     
  14. HomeoftheJets

    HomeoftheJets Well-Known Member

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    I speculated whether Mac told Heimerdinger to make the trade, but then I said it ultimately doesn't matter. Because even if Mac didn't give any orders, Heimerdinger at the very least did the trade with Mac's approval, i.e. Mac signed off on it. Because Heimerdinger was under Mac in the organization, and if Mac had a problem, he could have overruled him. Yeah it was unusual Heimerdinger negotiated the trade, but Mac was the one who gave him the job and the freedom to do that. Finally, for someone who's accusing others of trolling, "Either way I’ve proven my point(as I always do)" is borderline trolling.
     
  15. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it was speculation, and after reading this interesting and great article, I see nothing that says it was wrong. Just because Breer doesn't mention that Heimerdinger and Mac ever talked until the deal was consummated, does it make sense that they wouldn't have? Mac may have trusted Heimerdinger to work out the details of the trade, knowing that Mac wouldn't give up a first to move up, but that doesn't mean that they didn't talk about it before Heimerdinger first spoke with Dodds or that Heimerdinger didn't keep Mac appraised of the progress of the talks.

    Thanks for posting that article. It confirmed quite a bit and I learned quite a bit.

    One, Mac is both dumber and luckier than I thought. He's dumb for having had no interest in Carson Wentz and preferring Jared Goff to Wentz in 2016, and for not having any interest in drafting a QB in 2017. According to the author of the article, he thought the QBs in the 2017 draft class were great, but he thought it more important to address the culture and leaders in the locker room than address the QB spot. He wanted a QB in the 2015 draft and in the 2016 draft. The Jets still needed a QB and he thought that Mahomes, Watson, Trubisky and Kiser were great prospects, but thought, "Oh, I'll just wait another year to try to get my QB and will look for a leader and culture changer on D?" What GM in his right mind would have done that with 2-3 great QB prospects in the the 2017 draft and his team still desperately needing a FQB? I will say that once he made the decision to address the culture and leadership instead of the QB position that Adams was absolutely the right pick, but imo, that was a stupid decision to address the culture and leadership on defense when they still didn't have a QB.

    Just as he was lucky that Leonard Williams and Adams fell to him, Mac was lucky that Darnold fell to him, lucky that Cousins didn't want to play for the Jets, and lucky that Heimerdinger did a great job working out the trade with Dodds and Ballard. Has there been a luckier GM in the history of the NFL? With Mac's luck, if he had taken Mahomes, he would have developed in spite of Bates and Bowles or if he had taken Watson, Watson would have stayed healthy and been good enough to keep Mac employed. Further, since he had his QB already, there would have been no need to trade up, Denver would have taken Darnold at #5, and Bradley Chubb and Quenton Nelson would have been sitting there for Mac at #6. With his quota of luck used up for one draft, he would have undoubtedly passed on James Daniels or Braden Smith, and probably taken two players in the 2nd round who wound up being busts or tearing up their ACL or something.

    Mac does deserve credit that once he decide to potentially draft a QB in the 2018 draft, he went all out himself, and sending his scouts and Heimerdinger to scout Darnold, Rose, Mayfield and Allen extensively. I also have to credit him for being smart enough to study how the Eagles and Rams were handling having their young QBs and how the Seahawks handled it several years earlier. I also credit him for not waiting around on Cousins, and securing Bridgewater and McCown and reverting or turning to Plan B to draft a QB.

    I don't understand the following quote, however:

    Why is he crediting Bowles, Bates and the CS? Supposedly, Bowles, Bates and the CS had zero input into the draft. Was he congratulating them for being incompetent or pulling off a tank (which is suggested in the next quote)?

    This article also confirmed for me that if Darnold had gone #1 to Cleveland, that Mayfield would have been the pick at #3.
     
    #455 NCJetsfan, Jun 16, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2019
  16. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    Yes, the Jets had a plan. I credit Mac for that.

    The article says that Mac had complete trust in Heimerdinger, whom Mac had hired or promoted (I forget which). Heimerdinger and Dodds spoke 3-4 times regarding a possible trade. Heimerdinger called Dodds and said that the Jets were going to need the Colts pick. The last time Heimerdinger called Dodds, Dodds passed him on to Ballard and the deal was done. According to the article, Mac had no part in it. It's hard for me to believe that Heimerdinger didn't keep Mac appraised of the talks with Dodds, so I have to agree with you that Mac was in the loop and giving the ok on the talks even though the article doesn't mention it.
     
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  17. HomeoftheJets

    HomeoftheJets Well-Known Member

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    I actually don't think Mac was involved in the negotiations. That was one of his problems, he took a GM job but he never acted like anything more than a scout. If I'm right though, he hired Heimerdinger to play that role for him, which worked out for the Darnold trade at least.
     
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  18. Ralebird

    Ralebird Well-Known Member

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    1. You're not involved in the conversation.
    2. This adds nothing to the conversation.
    3. Calling people names is juvenile at best.
    4. This adds nothing to the conversation or the civility or purpose of the forum.
    5. Agree or disagree but if you are unable to contribute just don't post at all.
     
    #458 Ralebird, Jun 17, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2019
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  19. Ralebird

    Ralebird Well-Known Member

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    You want to call Idzik responsible for Sam Darnold? Fine go ahead. While you're at it, why not cite Charles Dolan for not outbidding Woody Johnson when the team was for sale, after all it was Johnson who hired Idzik. Knock yourself out.

    The story said that the idea of trading draft slots for a quarterback was developed in May of 2017, long before Heimerdinger had his meeting with Dodds. (Also two and a half years after Idzik was fired.) Why are you insisting that was Heimerdinger's doing? The guy worked for MacCagnan, he did what MacCagnan wanted done. He was the messenger. If you have some kind of information that indicates otherwise just show it. The Sports Illustrated article supports nothing of the kind.

    I'm not sure what you're attempting to get at with this unless it's simply a case of trying to discredit MacCagnan, the guy who engineered the process and went to five of Darnold's games in 2017. If that's what you're looking for, if you want to rewrite history, go ahead, the guy is gone anyway. If there's something important here, what the hell is it?

    And act like an adult and stop with the stupid names.
     
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  20. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    I don't think he was involved in the negotiations, either. I said that I thought that he was just kept in the loop. Breer said that he trusted Heimerdinger completely. If true, then he would have trusted him to handle the negotiations for the trade. Still, unless Mac is just a total dumbass, he would have wanted to have been kept in the loop with the status of the talks, and probably had to give his final ok on the deal, as well as get Chris Johnson's ok, which I think the article states.

    He never acted like anything more than a scout? Did Heimerdinger negotiate all the FA signings and rookie contracts, too? Did Heimerdinger contact all the FAs and run the draft too? No. That's way over the top.

    I still haven't seen anything to remotely suggest why Heimerdinger was fired. Supposedly, Mac and he were quarreling, but if Mac trusted him completely and he did such a good job with the trade up for Sam, what could they have been arguing over?
     
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