Maccagnan 2019 drafting blunder

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by wewantsapp, Jun 13, 2019.

  1. chandler

    chandler Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2013
    Messages:
    1,019
    Likes Received:
    1,308
    this just proves Macc was a masochist. He was trying to stockpile late round picks which he could subsequently blunder
     
  2. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2016
    Messages:
    14,409
    Likes Received:
    21,484
    Yes, by itself, one fourth round blunder might not be a big deal, but in fact it was a series of blunders in this case, and that's on top of the other sub-first round mistakes he made. The truth is that if he wasn't working for the clueless owners he was he would've been fired after his third season. He'll never get a GM job again.
     
    tomdeb, NCJetsfan and The Dark Knight like this.
  3. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2004
    Messages:
    27,050
    Likes Received:
    14,253
    Yeah, I agree with all of that. Can't see how any team could possibly hire him as GM. Especially with rumors that the Texans were going to fire him if the Jets had not made him their GM. Still happy he was able to get the Jets Sam, and players like Leo, Jamal and Quinnen fell into his lap too.
     
    NCJetsfan likes this.
  4. azhar80

    azhar80 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2008
    Messages:
    798
    Likes Received:
    322
    This means Pat's stole from everybody, those damn cheaters are at it again. Also if Mac wanted this Center, and knowing Macs draft success ratio, I wouldnt have drafted him if I were the Rats.
    According to Manish everyone stole from us and we got nothing in the draft, very insightful, and informative journalist is he...
     
    Jets81 and Bowles Movement like this.
  5. Ralebird

    Ralebird Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2012
    Messages:
    14,038
    Likes Received:
    8,637
    Oh, so you mean neither one of these guys comes with a guarantee of either playing or becoming a success?
     
    westiedog1 likes this.
  6. Bowles Movement

    Bowles Movement Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2018
    Messages:
    129
    Likes Received:
    99
    They were both viewed as 4 th or later round picks that projected as back ups
    Samia seems more experienced and might have a little higher upside.
    We took Wesco with our fourth rd pick. Lot of people like the pick. You can’t pick all the players you want to fill all your holes.
    He traded back to get an extra pick. Most fans wanted him to trade back and acquire more draft capital.
    I think if he felt that there was value there , Maccagnan wouldn’t have traded back
    I really don’t see this as a huge mistake. If one of these guys becomes an all pro , let me know
     
    westiedog1 likes this.
  7. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2013
    Messages:
    35,286
    Likes Received:
    28,715
    You missed the whole point of my post. It wasn't that I coveted either Frohold or Samia or thought they would be sure-fire All Pros. That's ridiculous! I like Samia and think he has some potential, and hoped the Jets would draft him just to have some better competition for Winters and perhaps be able to groom him to replace Winters next season, but if not, at least he might be better depth than what we had. I said that I can't even speak about Frohold because I never read anything about him. I like the Wesco pick, so that had nothing to do with it.

    I was just making the point that it was a mistake on several levels. One, if Mac was counting on getting one of Frohold and Samia as potentially the Jets starting center in a year or so, that it was dumb and big mistake to trade down twice and wind up missing out on both. I think I said it was also a mistake to count on them becoming a starting caliber center. Two, I thought it was a mistake because I think we need a better starting C than Harrison NOW, not in a year or two. I didn't say this in the post to which you're referring, but it was also a mistake because yet again, Mac was trying to build an OL with mid- and low- round prospects. I also think it was a mistake to draft an OG, and count on his being able to switch and play C effectively.

    Traditionally, if one played a 3-4 base D, one had to draft a collegiate DE and hope he could make the switch to standing up and play OLB. IMO there is little or no reason, however, to draft an OG to play C that has never played the C position before or for only a few games, especially when C has been a glaring hole since Mangold retired, and even his last year wasn't that good. Yes, many collegiate OTs have to move inside to OG in the NFL because they don't have the movement skills and/or height and arm length to succeed at OT in the NFL, and they are able to make the transition and play well, but why take one of those guys,if you don't have to? If you need a starting OG and there are quality OGs in the draft, why not draft one of those OGs? IMO the only reasons you would draft one of those guys are if you were trying to get by on the cheap or if you missed out on one of the good OGs, and one had no other choice but draft one of the collegiate OTs and hope that he could make the switch to OG, and there was no pressure to play him immediately. He had time to learn the position, develop, and adjust to the NFL. Mac could have signed Paradis or he could have quite possibly traded down in the first, obtained a 2nd round pick and been able to draft one of the top 3 C prospects in the draft. That, imo, is what he should have done.

    Fourth round picks can be very valuable as sometimes really good players fall to the 4th round. If one doesn't have a 4th round pick, then I can understand trading down in the 3rd round to obtain a 4th round pick. Otherwise, in general, one should not trade down after the 2nd round imo. There's no real benefit to getting extra low round picks. The odds are against low-round picks making it onto an NFL roster or staying for long even if they do. One is better off taking a player one likes at a position of need or just taking the BPA. Even trading down in the 2nd round one usually doesn't get that many picks or that great a pick in return. IMO the best place to trade down is in the 1st round. That's where one can often get multiple picks in return. Trading down once in the 4th round, and not even getting a pick in return was dumb. Trading down twice and only coming away with a 5th round pick was idiotic imo.

    It's fine if you don't see it as a huge mistake. I do. We'll just have to agree to disagree.
     
  8. Bowles Movement

    Bowles Movement Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2018
    Messages:
    129
    Likes Received:
    99
    Craig, You’ve got to make choices in life and the draft is no different
    If the Jets felt center was a dire emergency, I’m confident they would have signed or drafted a center. They took an O lineman in the third rd so they added talent to the unit, just not where you wanted it. Harrison started the last half dozen games and did fine.
    Imo they don’t see it as big a problem as you do. Gase was GM for several weeks-if he was concerned, they’d have signed a guy or at least brought some players in for tryouts. So it doesn’t sound like he is too concerned with the situation

    You can agree to disagree with the Jets.

    I’m not going to get into the first rd trade back options- Lacking a QB it’s clear no one was paying to move up for them and taking the best talent in the draft was the best option. Your trade down philosophy doesn’t jive with the rest of the NFL gums. They all move around as they see value or a player that fits need or scheme and it doesn’t stop after the fourth round.
     
    westiedog1 likes this.
  9. WarriorRB28

    WarriorRB28 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2003
    Messages:
    9,842
    Likes Received:
    2,194
    They outsmarted themselves.

    I didn't understand MacCagnan's obsession with stockpiling late round picks the past couple of years. It was weird. Most teams trade down in the early rounds to stockpile high draft picks in the same round or future years.

    The Jets tend to do well in the fourth round too.
     
    ColoradoContrails likes this.
  10. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2013
    Messages:
    35,286
    Likes Received:
    28,715
    Richard, I had and still have no confidence in Mac whatsoever. He thought he could have a good OL with cast-offs from other teams and low-round draft picks. It's just like him to try to get by at C with Harrison and Toth, a career backup who wasn't even good enough to start on a sorry Colts OL, or good enough to replace a horrible Wesley Johnson in 2017 or an injured and totally ineffective Spencer Long this past season, and a totally unproven player who was an UDFA last year in Toth. Maybe Harrison has improved. I sure hope so, but until he proves to me that he has, I won't be happy with him at C. You may be satisfied with "fine," but I'm not. I have higher standards than that. Now that we have a potential FQB, I want him protected, not getting pounded or having his career cut short because Mac was a dumbass and didn't make a move for a better C. Obviously, there is no "they" making Jets' personnel decisions. Mac was calling the shots in FA and the draft, with the exception of Bell, whom Chris Johnson wanted. I'm sure that Heimerdinger and the scouts had some input, but it was obvious that the CS didn't, and that Mac had the final say.

    By the time Gase became GM, it was too late. Whom was he going to sign then? He was only temporary GM and imo was smart enough to not burn future draft picks of the future GM, whom he thought would be his friend Douglas. We'll see what happens at the C position in TC. Harrison may prove me wrong, or Douglas could sign a camp cut or swing a trade for a C.

    Nothing is clear regarding whether Mac had any trade down offers. To say otherwise, is not accurate. Based on what Mac said, he received at least a couple of offers, but didn't think they offered enough. He wanted a ransom of picks. There could have been a good offer or two that Mac just didn't want, but that Douglas or another GM would have accepted.

    Moving around to get value for a pick if there's no one they really covet at their spot is one thing. Trading down to accumulate draft picks is another.

    Again, we're just gonna have to agree to respectfully disagree. It's great to see you posting again, however. I hope that fishing is great for you!
     
    #30 NCJetsfan, Jun 16, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2019
  11. Martin&theJETS

    Martin&theJETS Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2006
    Messages:
    4,483
    Likes Received:
    2,517
    Mac consistently acted like he was Rain Man on Day 3. The result? Injured defensive players that played a combined 11 career college football games.
     
    ColoradoContrails likes this.
  12. joe

    joe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2009
    Messages:
    8,990
    Likes Received:
    5,632
    "Let it go" and miss out on the opportunity to read the same 'beat-a-dead-horse' argument the same people have posted over and over and over in a hundred other threads?

    Manish Mehta: .the 1st name (and last word) in trust.


    .
     
    #32 joe, Jun 16, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2019
    FJF likes this.
  13. boozer32

    boozer32 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2006
    Messages:
    5,648
    Likes Received:
    3,829
    Your looking little picture. The big picture was Macc never addressed that side of the line the entire time he was with the Jets. That is gross incompetence. It should have never come down to filling that position with a 4th round guy. There were 4 years of free agency and drafts that he just wasted. Maybe we can convert one of the gaggle of DT into a center. They certainly aren't making any impact on defense.
     
    tomdeb and NCJetsfan like this.
  14. I defended Mac for a long time w the OL bc there has been a real supply issue at the position in terms of NFL ready prospects entering the draft even outside of the 1st round.

    But 5 years of never making the OL anywhere close to a priority is inexcusable. Mac liked to avoid risk on his picks w an exception for what he deemed managable injury prone types. At some point you need to get w the OL coach identify some small schoolers w good feet,wingspan & potential & develop somebody. His eye for developmental OL was crap.

    2020 draft & FA is considered rich in OL. OL will surely be prioritized by Douglas next offseason.Team needs to figure out a way to land one of the blue chip WRs in this upcoming draft class as well.Almost as massive of a need and possibly even more scarce supply.
     
  15. CotcheryFan

    CotcheryFan 2018 ROTY Poster Award Winner

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2018
    Messages:
    7,233
    Likes Received:
    9,922
    I'd be ecstatic if we can land one of Jerry Jeudy, Tee Higgins, Ceedee Lamb, Laviska Shenault, or Henry Ruggs. All have #1 WR potential that our current group lacks.

    As for OL, we might have to "settle" for the non blue chippers as I see Little and Thomas being top 10 picks. Unless there are blue chip prospects beyond those 2. I expect us to pick in the teens at the earliest next year.
     
    KurtTheJetsFan likes this.
  16. I could see everyone of those WRs being a great addition although i have not seen Ruggs

    Theres an abundance of well regarded OL prospects & there will be definite risers and fallers. Little & Thomas are both surefire first rounders though i still believe Thomas is a better fit at RT based on body type/playing style & Little while extremely solid im not sold on him being an elite athlete at the position.Id like to see better lower body flexibility & the ability to sink his hips.

    Trey smith out of Tennessee is extremely intriguing but he has a ton of work to do in terms of technique,stronger anchor & filling in his massive frame.

    I love Jack Curhan out if Cal who no one is talking about but if he can transition from RT to LT this coming season could be a top 20 pick.
     
    CotcheryFan likes this.
  17. Longsuffering88

    Longsuffering88 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2012
    Messages:
    2,616
    Likes Received:
    2,398
    Stealing a guy we passed on many times?


    Ok



    FUCK YOU MANSHIT MEHTA click bait tool bag
     
    FJF likes this.
  18. westiedog1

    westiedog1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2014
    Messages:
    2,623
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    I don't think so. I know this will probably rankle a lot of people, but OL would be the last of my concerns if I were tasked to build a football team. To win, you first need talent at the skill positions QB, WR, RB. Historically, it's been teams with great QB's who have consistently competed for championships. Great QB's performed no matter who was blocking for them, and the same could be said about great RB's. Next, I would address the defense to keep the other team off the board. After that, offensive line starting with LT. No GM can get all the pieces needed all at once. You have to selectively build year by year. Following that, with free agency, you have to figure out who your key players are (hopefully it's the QB) and sign them long term. It's a lot easier to sign one key player long term than try to keep 5 OL guys long term.
     
    #38 westiedog1, Jun 17, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2019
    ColoradoContrails likes this.
  19. CotcheryFan

    CotcheryFan 2018 ROTY Poster Award Winner

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2018
    Messages:
    7,233
    Likes Received:
    9,922
    For now, my preference is WR in round 1, OL in round 2. I feel like we can land one of the WR's I mentioned while landing a good, but maybe not great OT prospect. Both will be needs for us as we need as many dynamic skill position players as possible while the OL has been neglected for too long. Both starting OT's could be gone after next season and Edoga isn't enough.
     
    KurtTheJetsFan likes this.
  20. I couldnt agree more.I have more confidence in the Jets finding OL help after round 1 than i do WR. A dynamic play making WR to grow w Sam is mandatory next offseason just as OL improvement is.
     

Share This Page