Center: Linsley or Elfein

Agreed....but then again Mac may have his eye on a specific player that may or may not become available. If a lesser C becomes available earlier, Mac will have a decision to make.

 

I would love for either of these guys to come on board before spring training. They really need to get the reps in not only with Darnold, but the unit in order to be effective.

If not, I hope Harrison pans out. He was definitely better than the Jaime Lannister dude we had last season. No offense to people with casted hands, but you just can't snap with that thing.

Is next year's draft class deep with centers? Could that be the plan? I know so. It would be a waste of a window to have an incompetent OL.

 

Honest question for those on this board that I respect - other than having a name you haven't heard of, what makes you think Jonotthan Harrison can't play Center for the Jets this season?

He started 8 games last year, did he do bad???? Hell, Harrison has 32 starts in his career! That's more than enough games to evaluate his abilities, and while everyone is so dramatic about the center position, nobody can tell us anything about how good/or bad Harrison even is

 

Another thing to consider-

In baseball, they have the WAR stat. "Wins above replacement" an advanced metric for determining a player's value over the "replacement level" player ie... the level of player you can get anywhere to fill that spot.

I'll admit, I'm not the most informed poster here on this website when it comes to freakin Jonotthan Harrison, but given that he's a journeyman that has started 32 games in the National Football League, I think it is fair to say he is a "replacement level" center, making that stat perfect for him. Maybe you disagree, and if so, cool tell me about it, but if we consider Harrison "replacement level" then think about the WAR stat:

Mitch Morse got $11+ Mill annually from Buffalo!!
Matt Paradis got ~~$9.5 Mill annually from Carolina

Are their WAR stats even 1? Is Mitch Morse gonna bring Buffalo 1 more win than if they just plugged the spot with Jonotthan Harrison?? I sure as hell don't think so... So what the hell are we even complaining about? Less than 1 game of impact? really......

Jonotthan Harrison (Replacement level) will make $2.5 mill for the NY Jets. By saving $7, 8, 9 mill, etc... at his position, the Jets were able to put that money towards players that will have a much higher impact: a workhorse 3 down RB in Le'Veon Bell, A winner and quarterback of the defense in C.J. Mosley...

I hope they bring in some competition for Harrison, especially any June 1st cuts, who will also be "replacement level" players but at the end of the day, I don't really get all the drama over his spot

 

He was well below average.
He had 300 coverage snaps last season, surrendered 3 sacks, 2 QB hits, 8 pressures, and committed 4 penalties . If Darnold wasn't as mobile, the #s would be worse.
Exactly what you'd expect from a replacement player, which is what he is. He's not a starting caliber center.

 

I know that you don't respect me, but I'll reply anyway. Harrison wasn't even good enough to start on the Colts OL when their OL was awful and getting Andrew Luck pounded and then injured. In 2017, he wasn't considered good enough by Bowles and Morton to beat out Wesley Johnson or even replace him when Johnson was sucking so badly. Last season, with Long having a cast on his hand and not being able to snap worth a darn, Bowles and Bates, wouldn't bench Long and insert Harrison until they absolutely had to or be crucified in the media and by fans. Finally, Mac's perspectives on the OL (his thinking that one can be built with low-round draft picks and it having been a low priority) and his lack of moves to sign top FA OL or use high draft picks on the OL in his 5 years here have done nothing to engender any trust or respect for Mac's handling of the OL, so if he feels "comfortable" with Harrison starting, that is definite cause for concern.

That said, Bowles, Morton and Bates (and whoever the Jets' OL Coaches were) certainly are not good, either, so maybe Harrison is better than it has appeared, or maybe he has improved, but until he proves it on the field, I'll will be very concerned about Sam's safety and health as long as Harrison is the starting center. My major concern is with Sam's health. My secondary concern is that Bell and the Jets' RBs have holes opened for them in the rushing attack.

That replacement value stat for baseball is completely meaningless or almost completely meaningless for football imo. A replacement level player in baseball can't cause another teammate to get seriously injured. In football a replacement level OL can get his QB killed.

 

Harrison may be just ave and that’s fine with the new guard we got so Harrison will be better with help. Jets fans think they can sign all pros and above ave starters at every spot. No one has that because once they be come good they will get paid and there’s a salary cap.

 

Very true. Everyone is going to have weak spots on the roster, you need to pick and choose where to have them so it has the least negative impact.

The New England Patriots have won 2 Super Bowls now with some undrafted dude named David Andrews at center. He ain't better than Jonotthan Harrison. They are both "replacement level" players... NE would never spend $11 million on a center like Buffalo did with Mitch Morse

 

I give Mac some credit for drawing a line on how much to spend on Morse. Making him the highest paid center in the game does not seem very smart.

I hate not getting a center. But I understand not overpaying on Morse or bidding on Paradeis sight unseen before our doctors were allowed to examine him.

While I appreciate Macs discipline on spending there is the counter argument that he might be too cheap to sign FA OL. We have lost out on every guard and center we have tried to sign the last 4 years and it is quite a long list. It is a very difficult line to draw when teams spend like the Bill's do. Hopefully. We can draft a long term answer next year. If Polite works out we can focus on OL next year.

 

Andrews is one of the top 7-8 centers in the league , and was rated the best center in the playoffs. He's much better than Harrison who ranked 31.
Also having Scarnecchia as O line coach helps a great deal.

 

Ranked by whom?????

 

Actually, he did sign Carpenter, Swanson and Long in FA.

Not continually spending on FA is a good thing; however, when one refuses to use or "spend" high draft picks on the OL, the only other three options are to overspend in FA, do nothing at all, or try to build one with low-round draft picks and cheap FAs (which imo is basically the same as doing nothing at all).

It's fine to say that we can focus on OL next year, but what if Sam suffers a serious injury THIS year because Mac refused to address the center position?

 

I've seen no one say that they think the Jets could or should sign All Pros and above average starters at every spot. IMO the center position is not one where one should go cheap or go with an average or below average player in a starting spot. Besides, if Mac had drafted a center, we would have had him cheaply for 4 seasons. During that time we might have made the playoffs a couple of times or even won a SB. If the Jets couldn't afford him at the end of the 4 years, then they could trade him or let him walk in FA, and draft another center. IMO the goal should be drafting so well that we don't need to sign outside FAs except in rare occasions or as depth. And as players' rookie contracts are up, the team can decide who's worthy of re-signing and who isn't. If they all play well and deserve big contracts, then that's a nice problem to have. I'll worry about paying them all when we get to that point.

 

I'll be the first one to admit, I can't fully evaluate a center, because they do more than just block and snap the ball. Most call protection plans at the LOS etc etc. I can't scout that for Harrison or any other Center, nor can any of you(likely).
But, Harrison seemed "more than serviceable" at the end of year when he had a few games under his belt. The same can be said for Sam Darnold, coincidence?? You tell me. We have a better OL coach this year and I trust him more than myself to develop Harrison and et al. I was all for drafting a Center in the draft, but after we didn't, I did some research on the backup we have and the UDFA we signed and there are ++ to both of them.

Jon Toth. I admit, 10 days ago, I had no clue who this guy was. Found out, he was a 4-year starter at Kentucky. Prior to the combine of 2018 he was regarded as a top 5 Center in the draft. He had a poor combine showing and obviously dropped to become an UDFA. I believe the Eagles signed him. Why he had a poor combine, I found out he had a back injury that needed surgery after the combine. By all accounts, he is fully recovered from that. 4-year starter and graded as a top 5 prospect prior to injury, I have no problem giving the kid a chance.

Toa Lobendahn. Teammate of Sam Darnold at USC, same goes for Chuma Edoga. Think it's any coincidence they are on the team?? I think not. Likely Sam spoke highly of both and that's a ++ in my book. Toa also played LT and Guard at USC, while also being a 4-year starter, although 1 year was limited to 1 game because of injury. At his pro day, he put up 36 reps on the bench, which would have been 2nd best of all invitees. Another ++ in my book.
While I would have liked to have traded back and gotten Bradbury in the 1st or, McCoy/Jenkins early 3rd... it didn't happen... and if we make no other moves, I'm okay to roll with these guys through a full camp.

 

PFF

 

The Jets desperately need a new starting Center--unlike the Bills, however, they are not desperate enough to make a B+ center the highest paid player at his position. I'd rather have Jonatthan Harrison and have hope for an upgrade than be locked in to slightly above average.

 

I am looking forward to this year training camp and the competition on our road to the final 53. Seems that one of our biggest interest areas going into this training camp might very well be the OL battles and the progress of our rookies including some of the UDFA. The offense versus defense training battles between two charged up coaches in Gase and Williams ought to be fun. Practices might be tougher than the real game. Hope we keep a very healthy squad going into the season.

 

I understand your perspective and respect it, but I think we see average as different. Since you refer to Morse as a B+ center and say he's slightly above average, it sounds like to you that average = B. Is that accurate? I see "average" as being a C, not a B, so imo a B+ player is well above average. Since we can't have an All Pro at every position, I think I'd be very happy with a B+ player at Center.

 

Well if we aren’t going to draft a C, and we aren’t going to sign a good one, and we can’t trade for a good one, then there is only one thing left to do..... what is Kevin Mawae’s phone number? Maybe he can get into playing shape by late summer.