it really doesn't matter that Ramsey was his QB because Ramsey sucks. consider guys like McNabb or Palmer throwing to Coles; then you'd see just how much of a deep threat he is, as well as his ability to play the possession role. we all knew Moss was a deep threat here, but his game didn't truly show it until last year when he had a strong-armmed QB throwing to him. look, i don't want to get into this whole debate again. im just saying, if Pennington had a strong arm, Coles would definitely threaten and stretch Defenses with his speed; it would add a whole other dimension to his game that we don't see because it's pointless to even try. cheers
Brunell isn't a strong armed QB, i credit the system for not using moss correctly when he was here in '04.
The idea of who's good and who isn't is overblown. Statistics are what matter. Mike Furrey has shown a great flair for getting open. Can he do it consistently once teams figure out Mike Furrey? That remains to be seen. You have to pay the guys who show a consistent ability to get open and put up consistent numbers. When a guy shows hands, route running ability, and toughness, you lock him up, intelligently, before he reaches his full market value. The Jets bungled the Coles situation precisely because they initially offered Coles, a budding star, a contract eerily similar to the one they had just given Wayne Chrebet, who was entering the twilight of his career. Bradway had absolutely no stomach or sense in negotiations. As for that first rounder the Jets so desperately wanted, it was offered by Houston in a trade for Lamont Jordan which the Jets declined at the time. Were the Jets so concerned with getting an extra first round pick they could have easily parted with their backup running back. After all, they had just extended Curtis Martin ad infinitum(another act of sheer brilliance). Bradway completely bungled the tender, plain and simple. He allowed Arthur Blank to set the market, absurdly inflate it, and then he was left with no recourse. The number one pick was a consolation prize and the only silver lining it an offseason where the Jets front office was completely raped by the Redskins. While it never bore any fruit, it was an embarrassment at the time. The assertion that Ramsey's arm strength didn't benefit Coles means nothing. Gibbs offense in his first season was antiquated and conservative. While Coles IS a possession receiver, those kind of guys are far more valuable to an offense than a deep threat, particularly in the modern era. -X-
Cotchery will show loyalty to Mangini for giving him the opportunity to actually see the field. Cotchery will be a Jet for a long time. :beer:
In my opinion, the jets DID NOT FUMBLE A THING. I think they DID anticipate someone would make a run at Coles, and they'd get a 1st rounder. This is EXACTLY WHY, in my opinion, they did not put a High Tender on Coles... THEY WANTED THE FIRST ROUNDER!!!!!!!!!
ahhaah.. First we blame Pennington's arm, and then I cite an example of him playing without Pennington, and we cite something else. COLES IS A POSSESSION RECEIVER. THE STATS BARE THAT OUT. SANTANA MOSS PLAYED WITH PENNINGTON AND AVERAGED 17+ per catch.
Actually you might remember the suspect play-calling in Washington when Coles was there. First year they had no running game or o-line which took away the deep game, then year after Gibbs hadn't adjusted to the new NFL and his offense sputtered. That's why Coles had low ypc. He only caught 45 balls in 2004, if he caught 90 like Coles I'm sure his ypc would have come down.
Why don't you leave the contracts up to the GM and the agents? I think someone has been playing Madden too much.
you cited playing with Ramsey. do you really think any WR can be productive or a deep threat with Ramsey at the helm? cheers
Moss was a good deep threat with pennington at the helm.. someone you said was thre reason why Coles was not a deep threat.. And yes, I think someone can be productive with Ramsey (doesn't mean I think he's any good) at the helm. Coles caught 90 balls with him at the helm. Coles proved it can be done. He's a possession receiver. That's not a bad thing.
I completely disagree. The chemistry between Pennington and Coles in 2002 was so obvious and so compelling that only a complete idiot would have let Coles go for a mid first round pick. In the Jets last 12 games of 2002, or the games in which Chad Pennington started, Coles caught 75 passes (a 100 catch pace) for 1,121 yards (a 1,500 yard pace.) He had no games in which he caught fewer than 5 balls for 60 yards, meaning that not a single defense that the Jets faced was able to shut him down. I do not think much of Terry Bradway's managerial skills or style, however I do not believe him to be an absolute and utter moron and that's what it would have taken to blithely let Coles go for a random first round pick (it could just as easily have been Philadelphia or Green Bay making the unmatchable offer as Washington) after the magical 2002 season and the emergence of Chad Pennington. I'll add also that Herm Edwards was obviously and openly crushed when Coles left. He had lobbied publicly for keeping him for months throughout the season and I remember his stiff upper lip when Coles left. He knew he had lost something very important to the team and he was not a happy camper when Curtis Conway was signed to replace him.
Cotchery is good and seems to have his head on his shoulders so we should lock him up IF THE PRICE IS RIGHT. my guess is cotch doesnt want to go anywhere anyways now that he's got the trust of mangenius.
The plan may not have been smart, I didn't say that (although I really didn't mind it). Bradway, LIKE A LOT OF GMS/COACHES believe a WR can easily be replaced. I remember Francesa saying that as this was going down. I'm not saying the end result was right.... it wasn't. However, at the time, and you have to put yourself back in time during the situation, I think the Jets played this THE WAY THEY WANTED TO. Right or wrong is up for debate, but as they wanted seems accurate. Herm Edwards did not have personnel say, so what he thought means almost nothing. Disagree if you want (I don't care), but all their actions show this is kind of what they wanted. Coles to find an offer from another team, and if they found it reasonable, match, if not, get a #1. I think they wanted another team to do their negotiating for them, and figured they were in a no-loss situation.
The part about having another team negotiate for them might be true. Bradway was a horrible negotiator. The part about losing Coles for a 1st and being happy certainly is not true. The Redskins offer shocked the Jets and put them in a no-win situation. The remainder of Bradway's tenure as GM the Jets went 20-28, which is about the performance you would expect of a marginal contending franchise that suddenly started to bleed good young talent.
They have a measure for that? What's the performance you would expect of a marginal contending franchise that suddenly suffered a number of key medium to long-term injuries, but who had about a .500 record with bleeding young talent?
You wind up with more key injuries as you depend on older players to fill the gaps. Chad's first injury was the result of having a 3rd string guard (Brandon Moore) on the field in front of him in the pre-season in 2003 against the Giant's first string defense. You never let that happen. Mawae, Martin, Chrebet, these were the injuries that happened because the NFL is just tough on teams that invest in keeping people around past their prime. The average good player in the NFL is retired by 29. That's just the way that life in the NFL works. It's a tough, tough environment in which to maintain your roster from season to season. The Jets let James Farrior go at the age of 26 and then watched their two 30 year old linebackers decline almost immediately. What was expected about the whole scenario was that Jones and Lewis did not have much left in the tank. What was unexpected was that the Jets would be foolish enough to let their young guy get away in that scenario. The Jets let Randy Thomas go at the age of 26 and then tried desperately to fill his spot on the line with a mix of aging vets and young gambles. What was expected about that scenario was that the Jet's line, having lost 27 year old G Kerry Jenkins a year earlier, would have trouble maintaining the fine play of the Parcell's era. What was unexpected was that the Jets would somehow have their first string QB on the field with an experiment at RG in front of him against an NFL calibre pass rush and that Thomas absence would lead to the Jets first truly bad season since 1996. The Jets let Laveranues Coles go at the age of 25 and then tried to replace him with Santana Moss and Curtis Conway. Why they chose not to try and play Coles and Moss side by side is still a mystery. Guess it has something to do with locking up Chrebet long-term. How anybody in their right mind would have thought that Wayne Chrebet was a better receiver than Laveranues Coles is an even deeper mystery. The Jets let Kareem McKenzie go at the age of 25 and then tried to replace him with Adrian Jones, who now has morphed into Anthony Clement. If you keep letting good 25 and 26 year old NFL players get away you wind up playing people like Adrian Jones and Anthony Clement who are not good NFL players.
No, but we can certainly extrapolate that fact based on all of the other events that occurred at the time, including Terry Bradway's statements that the Jets did not expect Coles to draw an unmatchable offer.
Yea, sorry i have a need to bring those things up but you see it's hard for me to attempt to chime in about something jets-related and intellient when you're all jumping at each others' throats. :lol:
