I was talking in terms of NFL prospects but even statistically your stance doesn't hold water. Mahomes put up similar numbers in the same conference in his final season but 1000 more yards with far less talent around him. In their last head to head game Mahomes broke NCAA records for passing yards and yards from scrimmage. Mahomes also ultimately to his job as Texas Tech's starting QB and good enough to leave early for the NFL.
Well first, let me say thanks for the reasonable response - not that you usually don't respond reasonably, but lately everyone is getting chippy (self included). As to the points you raise, yes defense probably WILL adjust and learn to close down certain things he does, but that's what defenses to to ALL QBs. Mayfield has however actually demonstrated that he can adapt. Moreover he's driven to prove all the naysayers wrong, and has done that as well. The NFL is the next big challenge, but he has actually produced results on the field. You can dismiss or minimize those accomplishments, but he HAS done them. As contrasted with Allen, about whom we hear lots of "potential" tied to him. You and others might call that "Allen bashing", but it's not - it's simply holding him to a measurable/provable standard As to the "dink and dunk", given Mayfield's measured arm strength/speed of throws, why do you think he can't possibly throw down field? He's provided more evidence that he can do this than Allen has, and against tougher competition. As to the Jets not having receivers that suit Mayfield's game, why couldn't either or both adapt? At this point, I would really love it if we cold somehow put together video conference with everyone interested and view film together and point out these different things so we could all be on the same page at least as far as understanding each, if not being able to agree. When I say I see Allen not making good/timely decisions, and scrambling out of the pocket too quickly, I'd welcome someone to point out where I'm wrong, or what I'm seeing isn't exactly right. I'm not trying to "bash" anyone - I want nothing more than the QB we draft to be the long lost successor to Namath, and I don't care who it is. I just don't want Macc to take the wrong guy and set us back again.
Ya ur right that was a bit childish on my behalf The way I saw it: Mariota Goff Carr Mayfield Mahomes Mahomes looks to be a lot better of a prospect than I thought I just can’t remember an all pro air raid QB. Mariota in college was practically unstoppable there we games I truly believed he was Steve Young 2.0 and I might be horribly wrong there. I didn’t see a lot of Goff but I loved the way he trew the football almost flawless. I really didn’t give Carr a fair shake mostly because of his brother and how they came from the same program.
As NFL prospects coming into the league they probably would rank more like this: 1. Goff (went 1) 2. Mariota (went 2) 3. Baker (will go top 10 in deep qb class) 4. Mahomes (went outside top 10) 5. Carr (went 2nd rd) As far as Mahomes, he’s lucky Baker got hurt and transferred or he would have never saw the field. Him throwing 1000 yards more isn’t that impressive considering he threw nearly 200 more passes to do so. Big arm, but talk about dink/dunk gimmick offense...
I am familiar with Google plus I was alive the past 5 years so I know where they were drafted. I'm more interested in your thoughts and rankings on them as prospects not collegiate careers. Draft position means nothing to me. I thought Mariota, Wentz, Carr and Mahomes were the best QBs in their respective classes and none of them ended up being the first QB off the board.
I told you my thoughts on how I think they stack up as prospects (Mayfield will be the best in time imo). You guys said I got it wrong and that it was laughable... I get it, you hate him as a prospect. It’s fine, just don’t act all pompous when someone disagrees with you. .
I know it's hard but let's not lump everyone together. I never said you were wrong or your thoughts were laughable. In fact, I said specifically I was interested in your opinion not where they were drafted because I thought you were giving me a ranking strictly based on where they drafted. I don't hate or love any of the QB prospects in this class so of course this would be the year we draft one. With regards to acting pompous, I can't help how you interpret my posts.
Sorry shouldn’t have lumped you in. The 2nd ranking is where I think most rational people would have these guys ranked (the spot they got drafted just happened to coincide so I listed it next to them). Yeah, I was pretty pumped up for this draft but I Think because these guys are all so different it’s really hard to tell who is the best. Im harsh on Allen, but secretly would love for him to succeed as a jet. When I watch Baker I see elements of Drew Brees. Rosen actually looks the most like an NFL ready qb, I just don’t like him but really should. Darnold scares me with his decision making.
The NFL, and its perceptions of the importance of having a FQB have changed, even since last year. It's becoming more and more obvious that the league wants scoring, so the days of trying to build a great defense and a strong running game, with a game manager QB are quickly fading. If your offense is built to score 17 ppg, because you have a defense you believe can hold teams under that, you're not going to win a championship. And so that's why QBs are being "overdrafted" (I don't like that term).
This was a great video, thanks! I'm a little overwhelmed by all the numbers they throw around, and they kind of jump around, but it's still informative. And if I'm understanding what they said about "Comp. % when going to the 2nd (or 3rd/4th) receiver", Josh Allen only completes 22% of those throws, which support what my eyes tell me when I watch his game tape. So yes, he plays in a pro-style offense, BUT if he's most accurate when he's going with his first read, how much more complicate and "pro-ready" is that over a QB coming from a 1-read spread system? TBF, they do point out that some of Allen's (and Jackson's) lower Comp% can be offset by things they bring to the table. In Allen's case it's his big arm and athleticism that allows him to make big plays downfield; likewise with Jackson, his running ability can open up big plays that offset the missed "little" plays drag down his Comp%. But with both these guys that means you have a "boom or bust" offense, which usually means your offense has a lot of 3 and outs, and then BOOM! a quick strike TD, and what that means is your defense is going to be on the field a lot more than with a QB who is consistent and can maintain possession. And for the Mayfield crowd, Mayfield's "Comp% when going to the 2nd, 3rd. 4th receiver" was the the highest. Also, the Incomplete Passes that are attribute to QB error. Mayfield's number was 9.7% and he was the only QB in the class who was under 10%, while Allen's was 22%. Finally, on "Throws into tight windows (defined as receiver less than 1 step separated from defender), Mayfields % was the highest. Now you can dismiss all these numbers as just stats, and say that you value what you see on the tape, but if you go back and watch the tape with these numbers in mind, it might give you a different POV.
Let's leave Allen out of the conversation all together. I know that's what this thread is about..but my point was solely about Mayfield. Allen vs. Mayfield offers a drastically different style of prospect & evaluation. It's extremely hard to compare the 2. I think the concern I am raising comes down to conviction. You believe in the kid..think he can achieve anything...so be it. There is nothing I can really say that can dispute that. But this is a huge huge concern for me. To my knowledge he never faced the type of look I am talking about at all in college. I don't think it can be understated b.c he WILL face this look & if he can't beat it,it's pretty much a done deal. When you consider how long we've gone struggling w. 9-10 man fronts & trying to throw over the top of such...I hope you can understand why i have serious reservations. I'm tired of watching a vertically challenged offense.All that "Will of the warrior" stuff goes out the window once he puts the uni on. He can't escape a QB contain/dirty windshield he isn't gonna have much success. As for the "Dink & dink" stuff. That wasn't meant as a slight at Mayfield. I understand he has good arm strength. I just think a quick fire offense that optimizes his quick release & accuracy is the way to go. Yes we'll take some shots downfield & hopefully aren't vertically challenged.But I don't see him operating an Air coryell or driving the ball down field every single play. Given this fact, I'd like to see more of the type of WR'S I alluded to in my prior post. Quick, short area guys who can Mayfield in rthym & make plays after the catch. Right now pretty much all of the 16 WR's on the roster are down the seam physical types. Just thought that was worth noting.
I hear your concern, but as a defense responds to a certain type of offense, isn't true that the offense responds as well? Given Mayfield's arm and ability to make plays, don't you think the Jets would find an answer to 9-10 man fronts? I guess I just feel that Mayfield has proven he has the ability to make plays, and I see no clear proof that he won't continue to do so in the pros. So I guess we can just agree to disagree. BTW: I still prefer Rosen, but feel Mayfield is the best 2nd choice.
This post better helps me understand your concern, and see that there is at least some validity to it. I think you have a very good point regarding our WRs. For a WCO we really don't have typical WCO receivers. More great decisions by Mac. I really don't know why we're spending so much time, bandwidth and energy discussing QBs when Mac is gonna take one of Fitzpatrick, Chubb or Nelson (and show everyone that he can take an OL high), and probably won't even take a QB.
it's crazy that there isn't a single draft-able player on the offense with allen.with that said though, rumor is cleveland is taking him 1st overall
agree to disagree about what exactly? I said everyone is entitled to their own opinion and anyone is entitled to prefer mayfield or allen. that isn't the issue. the issue is the lies and personal attacks going on, not anyone's preference.
