As a rookie, he shouldn't be having much, if any input, be involved with game planning, or be having any debates with his QB Coach, OC and/or HC. He needs to keep his yap shut and learn. That's one of the reasons I no longer want Rosen.
After seeing offenses like Schotty's with all receivers running 5 yard curls on a 3rd and 10, I honestly wouldn't mind a rookie questioning why plays are set up how they are haha.
I finally got to watch this, and I see nothing that wasn't already known, and if anything, Mora's take is that he's learned how to watch what he says more. It's been known for a long time that he's a guy who will question things, and frankly I think that's what the Jets need, Now OTOH, what the Jets NEED and what they WANT might be two different things. But with his ability to make EVERY throw I see him as a perfect fit for the WCO they Jets want to run. As for being able to handle the physicality, if the Jets do run the ball more like Bowles says he wants to, this should help the wear and tear on Rosen.
What am I basing what on? That I no longer want Rosen? That Rosen shouldn't be having much, if any input into game planning, or be having any debates with his QB Coach, OC and/or HC? If it's the former, I've always liked Rosen's arm, but always hated his build and his injury history, and have been uneasy about his attitude mental state. If his former HC is saying that Rosen isn't disciplined or work hard enough preparing, then I definitely don't want him. If it's the latter, no rookie QB should be debating with his HC, QB Coach or OC. He's a darn rookie in the NFL and doesn't know jack about playing in the NFL or the team's opponents. He needs to learn and work on whatever he needs to work on and not be thinking he knows more than and/or arguing with his coaches.
With regards to Schotty, I'll definitely agree! LOL In general, however, it's one thing to ask questions in order to learn, and quite another because one things one knows more than anyone else.
I think you're taking what Mora said too literally. I think what Walt White said is what Mora meant: Rosen will do well, but if he wants to be GREAT - which Mora believes he can be - he'll have to dedicate himself to achieving it, it won't just come to him. Now, I can see where that could be construed to mean Rosen hasn't worked that hard before, but in that case I would say it's not due to laziness, but due to that he hasn't HAD to work hard to succeed...doesn't mean he can't or won't. Of course neither of us - or anyone not named Josh Rosen - know the answer to this, but when you remember what he's done - winning that Texas A&M game, and even when he's played "hero ball" I would say that isn't the mark of a lay person or a quitter. And given the shitty way the offence has been run for the Jets, I would LOVE to have a guy like Rosen questioning it. Now at teh end of the day, if the coaches insist on doing it their way, I would hope that he goes along with that, but I'm not going to knock him for trying to win. As to his "injury history", yeah it's there, but your guy Mayfield had two concussions in a one month period in 2016, so that should concern you as well. But I think that Bowles wanting to run the ball more may lessen the wear and tear on whoever the QB is. I understand you're all in on Mayfield, and I won't cry if that's who the Jets take, but Rosen has a chance to be Joe Namath or Peyton Manning great.
You could be right about what Mora said, and if we take Rosen, I will certainly hope that you are right and I am wrong. I don't think that Rosen is lazy, just hasn't had to work hard because he's been smarter and more talented than those around him. As you know, a lot of guys who get by on talent alone in high school and college, often, if not normally flame out in the NFL. It's hard for them to change their mental approach and suddenly change who they are and how they prepare for games. I think you know that even though I've liked Rosen, I've always had concerns about his concussions and injury history. IMO he just doesn't have the frame/body of a QB, it's more like a tennis player's. Again, I could be wrong, but I just don't think he's gonna hold up in the NFL. I'll be surprised if he lasts 3 years. I've also never fully agreed with you regarding Rosen's attitude. I don't see his attitude as you do, as something that could make him thrive in NYC and be great. I don't care how intelligent he is, that doesn't necessarily make him smarter about football decisions than his collegiate coaches and it surely wouldn't make him necessarily smarter than his NFL coaches. If the Jets' coaches aren't competent, they should be fired, but it shouldn't be a rookie QB's place to determine that. I wouldn't want Mayfield coming into the NFL thinking he knows more than his OC or HC, either. That, imo, causes problems and doesn't resolve them. At least Mayfield's concussions were 2 years ago, and he apparently hasn't had any other issues with them. Both of Rosen's were this past season, weren't they? My mind could change again before the draft, but at least for now I have cooled on Rosen.
You're - we're all - entitled to change our minds...changing our mind is a sign of openness and growth. Anyway, I won't try to refute all your points, but I will say this: Dilfer didn't like Rosen questioning him, but in the end realized it wasn't a bad thing. We'll just have to see how it all plays out.
Mora back on Path To The Draft tonight going over Rosen and Darnold with Brooks and Jeremiah. Very positive stuff for both guys. Mora said Rosen has supreme talent or something along those lines. Said Darnold is a 'tough, gritty competitor, baller' which is what I like about Darnold the most. No question they're the top prospects with those guys. Mora also said that Rosen would be a perfect fit in NY with us... and the gnats
Darnold vs Rosen may well come down to whether you think Darnold is the next Elway or Rosen is the next Marino or both. Rosen is the most pro-ready QB in several years, at least as far back as Teddy Bridgewater. He also has a substantially better arm than Bridgewater.
Said NY is a better fit? Cleveland a better fit for Darnold. Is he trying to help him get him away from Cleveland? Who knows?
Talent wise, I think Rosen is the most polished guy of the bunch. Since this is a discussion board, I'll drop my 2 cents on these comments. I'm not trying to sway anyone at this juncture, I think most have their minds made up. When I was coaching varsity football, most of our players were there 2 years. Even in 2 seasons, you develop a great bond with your players. You know everything about them: their mental state, their physical talent, their physical/mental limits, their home life, how hard they work vs how hard they could work, how coachable they are etc. Even in high school, you're around these players more than your own family. In college, you know them even better, especially when it comes to your top guys. When college coaches would come out, we were totally honest with them about the players because you don't want to burn the bridge for future recruits. That said, if someone asked me "If you were us, would you take your guy or this guy?", without hesitation I would always select my guy. That's not just a loyalty thing, it comes down to me knowing my guy all around better than any other guy. Sure, on paper someone else might be better, but I have no idea what that other recruit is all about. So if I would pick the other guy, that would surely close the door on my player. I realize there is a big difference between high school-college than college-pros. However, it still doesn't sit well with me that a head coach that has known a player for 3+ years is saying that someone else is a better fit because of "grit". If he said, Darnold is better fit systematically, I would totally understand. When you're basing the choice on mental attributes, that's really a red flag for me. Maybe you're right, he's trying to throw Rosen a bone and keep him out of Cleveland. But personally, I see it as a knock on the player. At this point, I think the Jets have done more than their due diligence on these players and I'll trust their selection has been fully vetted over the last 12+ months. With that said, 1 more friggin month till we can stop losing our minds!
Just taking that one sentence out of what he said doesn't get across what he was saying. His December interview he was clear he thinks Rosen is the best QB in the draft. “Because of fit, I would take Sam Darnold if I were the Cleveland Browns,” Mora said. “I think [he has] that blue-collar, gritty attitude. I think his teammates will love him. I think the city will love him. He’ll say the right things. He’ll come in and represent well. I think he kind of represents what Cleveland is. And then if I was one of the New York teams, I’d take Josh like that. I think they’re both going to be great pros.” In an interview on Fox Sports’ Undisputed in December, before the draft order was set, Mora offered a different take. He repeated the same platitudes about Darnold’s work ethic but said he believes Rosen is a better passer and therefore the better draft pick. “I think they're both me great pros, first of all,” Mora said. “Totally different styles of play, but I'm going to go with Josh, because he's a pure passer. He’s got a motion that you would love to see in your mini camp. I mean it’s just pure, and it's clean, and he can make every throw. He can throw with velocity, he can throw with touch. “But I love Darnold because he’s a gym rat. And he can he can improvise. He can make things happen on the move. They’re going to play different style of offenses. I think Darnold gives you a little bit more running ability, a little bit more mobility in the pocket. “But Josh has that way, like all the great ones, and the guys you played with, that kind of slip and slide around in the pocket, and find the window, and then they can get it there on time. They’re both going to be great, but I mean, you know, Josh is one of my guys, I got to go with him.”
He did reiterate at the end that he felt that if Rosen goes all in and makes the sacrifices necessary he would be great. I remember Parcells saying stuff like that. It's the truth for anyone to reach their full potential. It's what a coach will tell somebody and try to drive home the message to them. I really can't take that as any kind of reservation about Rosen. But in the end it's what separates guys. Brooks is very familiar with Rosen also and you could see he's very high on him.
