I can see how you'd end up confused.. Let me try to clarify... Cold weather football tends to be of the uglier variety when it comes to QB's. Remove Brady & Rodgers from the equation & consider Eli, Big Ben, Flacco hell even Favre.. There are days when 65% completion just isn't possible & the passing game is hard to watch. But sooner or later the guys made the plays downfield in order to win games. Cold weather QBing is alittle more about toughness,situational play, minimizing turnovers & making big plays downfield when opportunities arise. To put it simply I view these type of QB's alittle differently than a west coast guy. Within that I'm grading completion % on somewhat of a curve b.c it's a different style of game than LA or Hotlanta. This gets further exemplified in college when surrounding cast,coaching & OL aren't as good.I don't blame the cold weather for Allen's lack of accuracy I just expect less accuracy from the onset when the whole picture is apparent. I think he needs to learn better consistency in his foot work, improve his decision making & throw w. more touch. As for the WCO..there are versions of the WCO that absolutely throw downfield. Including the very one Bates is supposively installing from Denver. Yes he will need to learn better footwork, rythym & will absolutely need to make some short/intermediate throws..but think back to Elway,Jake Plummer,Jay Cutler & RG3. Lots of deep throws including outside the pocket w. all those guys.Outside of Elway none of those guys had pinpoint accuracy. But the point isn't to use those names as a projection...just rather that this offense can cater to a big arm that can get outside the pocket which Allen can. In fact, i would argue that if we are dead set on running a pure Shanahan offense of this style..Allen is easily the best fit followed by Darnold.
Allen & Darnold pro days are next week. From what Cimini says the jets are not high on Baker. I'm not a Allen fan, but he has the highest ceiling of all qb's and is willing to be a backup & learn I like Baker but think he may not be very acceptable to being a backup & learning. All the qb's have question marks. Darnold is a turnover machine. Rosen has durability issues & attitude problems Allen has accuracy issues even though they were saying his footwork has improved at the combine Some people compair Allen to Hack, I believe Allen is much better than Hack I have never seen a Draft where there was such a split on who the best qb's are 1 thru 4 Pick your poison & hope for the best.
Would you rather a QB play mistake football and play down to the players around them, or play and make throws like an NFL caliber QB? You absolutely lead your receiver in that situation. It’s a common staple in an NFL style offense, only exception is with a gadget play. Often times the QB will throw a backwards pass so the gadget play as that much time to execute the play. Otherwise it’s dangerous and should never happen. A big example of that was with McCown last season. I can’t remember who we were playing but McCown threw a backwards pass to Powell because Powell didn’t fade into his route, to his credit, the play got blown up off snap, which didn’t leave much room to fade into the flat, McCown tried to compensate anyway and threw an errant pass that resulted in a fumble and scoop by the opposing defense. You are wrong about where to throw. In that offense, which is an NFL style scheme, you absolutely rely on timing, good routes by the receiver, and anticipation. It’s crucial. Mayfield plays in an offense that is spread based, which is more of a reactionary, primary read offense. You put it where your open receiver is. Very QB friendly throws involved. That’s not an NFL offense though. Sure you strive for high percentage throw odds but most the time in the NFL, you don’t get that separation and openness that Mayfield has the luxury of. It just doesn’t work that way.
I have to disagree I don't think it was a lock that Allen or Baker falls to #6. + it is also screwing Buffalo, who I hear tried to move up to #3, out of landing a FQB. I can easily see 4 Qb's gone by #6 If Buffalo moved to #3. 1- browns 2-Giants 3-Buffalo 5-Broncos. I say it was a good move beating out Buffalo for #3 spot
First of all you're assuming Allen meant to throw the ball there, it isn't clear whether he did or not. Regardless, it's a screen, use some touch. More importantly, I know Mayfield is going to have to adjust to an NFL offense just like Allen will have to learn to be consistent. The reason I like Mayfield better is more QBs with Mayfield's background have succeeded than with Allen's. But there's no way of knowing which QB will be better in the end because so much of what makes a college QB succeed in the NFL is unpredictable.
I’m not sure how educated you are on offensive and defensive schemes, bread and butter plays, etc... That is a play ALL NFL schemes use, simply because it’s such a high percentage throw. It is common knowledge with that play specifically, you lead your RB when the man responsible for that RB leaves such a big cushion from the LOS. I do know what the intent was because I understand the design on the play that was ran. It’s not a play that you don’t know who should be doing what, it’s very obvious. The RB should’ve faded into the flat with the cushion and momentum in mind. What about Mayfields background leads you to believe he will be successful? It’s very much the opposite for me. You do realize that more spread offense QBs fail in the NFL then succeed, right? He played in a soft conference. He had a good amount of talent around him... He has a lot going against him as well. I’m not even talking from a physical aspect either. Again, I think Allen was consistent. A lot more consistent then your typical fan thinks by just looking at his stats. Again, there is a reason why top level scouts and GM really love this kid. You typically don’t see that statline with someone of his caliber but the variables is what make the difference. You have your opinion and I have mine. We shall see how it plays out.
I must say the hate he gets on this board dumbfounded. While I can't go as far as to say I like Allen, I certainly wouldn't be upset with the Jets drafting him. I'm not in love with any of these guys; they ALL have their issues. This is surprising that I'm not all in on any QB considering I usually have a "pound the table" prospect every year and this is suppose to be the year of the QB. I find a lot of the Allen haters either uninformed or view him through the spurned lens of Hack and Petty. I've said many times in the Draft forum if you actually WATCH his tape, he's not as inaccurate as his CMP% would suggest. On a side note, Mayfield is not as accurate as his 70 CMP% would suggest either. Back to Allen, he has a major chip on his shoulder and is uber competitive (yes Mayfield fans, Mayfield doesn't own a monopoly on those traits). He's a grinder willing to do any to secure the win, like you said ugly or not. Whether he has to throw it 50 times, run it on every play or throw it away half the time; it's all about getting the dub with him. I can appreciate that and a team can win with that. At the end of the day success for any of these prospects will depend less on what they do but more on what the organization does to support them. Last time the Jets attempted this FQB thing with Sanchez, they put up the "Mission Accomplished" sign way too early. They thought their work was done on draft day; that's not how it works. Hopefully we learned our lesson?
Allen's biggest problem IMO is NOT accuracy but touch and process speed. He has touch; he just doesn't use it as often as he should. When he is inaccurate, it's usually because he is trying to throw the ball too hard completely neglecting his mechanics. If he can learn that not every pass needs to be a fast ball, accuracy won't be much of an issue. The Senior Bowl practices and game were a microcosm of this. He struggled early both in the week of practice and the game trying to show off his ridiculous arm. Once he got settled in and took the mustard off he looked real good. When you are accustomed to throwing often in tight windows because your WRs get little separation, I can see you developing this habit. With regards to his process speed, it lags behind Rosen, Darnold and Mayfield. Just because you have the luxury because of your big arm to wait for a WR to break open vs throwing them open with anticipation doesn't mean you have to exercise it all the time. His process speed and anticipation has to get better. I think playing with and against better players will allow him to improve in those areas. It did at the Senior Bowl.
If the pass was supposed to be where Allen put it then the receiver wasn't just slow off the LOS, he ran the wrong route because his first steps were away from the LOS. Still doesn't change the fact that Allen is bad at screens though, even scouts admit it. Here's one. Spread QBs don't bust any more often than pro-style ones. For every Blaine Gabbert there's a Jake Locker. And spread QBs can succeed. See Goff, Prescott, Newton, etc. If anyone with a sub-60 completion percentage can succeed it's Allen, but I've seen the same justifications for Allen play out for other sub-60 QBs before.
Allen is way more refined than Hack, you're correct. I'm not sure if he has the absolute highest ceiling. He has the best pure arm strength but I wouldn't say he has the highest ceiling
I definitely don't think it will be Allen. But the fact that we have Bridgewater and McCown does sort of hint that it's not impossible that we take on a project and let him sit a year. Still there's a lot of work to be done with Allen.
Well I trust your research, but I still like Rosen and Mayfield better. Both have nearly as strong an arm, and both are way more accurate in every area of the field. Both also have reputations as being able to quickly assimilate new concepts and systems...not saying Allen is dumb, but he isn't noted for this aspect. And while Allen may be a great fit for the Jets at the Meadowlands, this also means he's a great fit for the Giants and Cleveland, as well as Buffalo if they trade up to #2, not to mention Denver which can even worse conditions than NY, any one of these teams could well covet Allen and take him before the Jets - and I hope they do.
I answered this in the other thread: I'm not an expert, nor do I have access to all the info/tape like Macc does, but from what I have seen, Allen has accuracy issues that, even if fixable, won't get fixed overnight. Plus, he'll need to learn a whole new system, some version of a WCO, unless the Jets decide to tailor their system to him (which is what I would do, but they won't). And this is speculation on my part (in contrast to the hard, cold, facts I've just presented), but I suspect Allen's accuracy problems are rooted in his difficulty in his timing of players in motion, especially cutting across his field of vision...long routes, away from him are easier to time, with more time to mentally calculate the timing of the throw; much less time for quick routes on shorter throws, and that's where he seems to struggle. I may be completely full of shit with this theory, but it makes sense to me. And I don't know if he can improve it/fix it with more practice, but maybe he can. Anyway, that's my reasoning for why I don't think Allen can start his first year. I should point out though that since I posted that assessment, I read several posts from Kurt and MeanDean that have made me reconsider Allen's readiness/fitness for the Jets. I don't completely buy their conclusion, but it has made me think that Allen could be an option as the 4th choice for Macc, and maybe even ahead of Darnold.
I though about that too..my order yesterday was rosen, darnold and punt. I just don't think maccagnan would get away with it. if, however, we can trade down and recoup some picks and then take barkley it would be great. oh and today my order has changed to darnold, mayfield, rosen
