I get your gripes about Bowles. I'm not his biggest fan either, but to be objective, he had 1 good year and 1 bad year with a flawed Jets team. I think you have to give him the benefit of the doubt and give him one more year to clean it up. He was dealing with some messed up situations and personnel issues, he does genuinely seem like he's trying, but may be overwhelmed. The team he inherited was not well disciplined. I believe he's trying to set the groundwork for a more disciplined team and better accountability. He's made a lot of bad in-game decisions, and his clock management needs work, but he has improved our penalties per game by a good margin compared with Rex's years. This shows that he IS doing something. The roster has many question marks right now for sure, but it's still to early to call. I doubt even Bill Belichick could have succeeded with the roster and QB problems the Jets had last year. Think about it, the 2 best defensive players, played like the 2 worst. The oline was decimated with injury, no TE for half the year, Decker's injury, Marshall's dropapalooza, awful QB play, etc. The Jets may not be as far off as folks think. I just pray to the football gods that Wilkerson returns to form.
He had a good year and a bad year, and the bad year followed the good year, and he had a better team the 2nd year. Not. Good. Some, perhaps all except Richardson's off-field escapade, were of Bowles' own making because he doesn't hold players accountable and isn't a disciplinarian. He's doing what, one thing right, out of how many? Hardly a glowing recommendation for his coaching skills. I'm rooting for him, and truly hope he has learned from his mistakes and that we'll see a very different, much better, Bowles this year, but am not holding my breath. Williams is probably the team's best player, and he was just fine. Revis has been going downhill. Mo had a bad year. Hopefully, most of that was due to his injury, but some of it is due to his attitude.
I just feel 2 years is a bit quick to toss him to the curb. I mean how many coaches do we really want to cycle through when trying to develop young QBs? Petty spent the last 2 years learning Gailey's system, and now he's going to have to learn a new one. Is Hack's one year in the system wasted as well? It makes you wonder. Also I strongly disagree that he had a better team the 2nd year. In what way was that team better? Forte over Ivory? It was almost the same team but Wilkerson never returned to form from injury and Revis declined hardcore. Decker missed most of the year Fitz was a year older and couldn't produce, Mangold was wearing down. I can't see any logical argument to claim the 2016 team had better players than the 2015 team.
If you think two years is too quick to toss him to the curb, that's fine. I don't agree, but no one said that we had to agree. The thing is, if Bowles had been fired, Petty and Hack still would have been learning a new system. The big difference is that, the system they were learning this year would be their system again NEXT YEAR. Now, with Bowles likely being fired following this season, Petty and Hack will more than likely be learning a 3rd system. Tell me which is better for them, learning 2 systems in 2 years and then having some stability, or learning 3 systems in three years? Also, what would have been better for our young players, to have a HC who holds them accountable. Ivory was better than Forte. IMO Mo's, Decker's and Mangold injuries don't count against the 2016 slate. They were still on the team, and could have just as easily stayed healthy. The Jets added Shell, Burris, Lee, Edwards, Anderson, Peake, ASJ, Jalin Marshall, and all contributed. IMO there's no way you can say that the team had better talent and speed in 2015 than in 2016.
I get what you are saying here, but it's not a foregone conclusion that Bowles is gone next year. Personally I was annoyed with Gailey that he decided to retire after the season and told the Jets at the beginning of the year. They should have immediately brought somebody in to work with transitioning to a new system, instead of continuing to develop Hack & Petty in that system. It made no sense. If the Jets are truly rebuilding, there's a good chance Bowles is back for a 4th year unless he completely shits the bed. Let's say they don't bring in any high profile free agents and start Hackenburg and mostly fill their holes with drafted players (or UFAs). They will most likely be bad, but you can't really blame Bowles for that. Ivory was marginally better. It was more of a wash actually, Ivory didn't do much at all in Jacksonville. He probably struggles 2016 in NY as well. And how do you not count Decker and Mangold's injuries when comparing the 2015 and 2016 seasons? Decker was a huge target for Fitz, he caught a TD in almost every game. Mangold was a year older and less durable. You have to take into Revis' play in 2016 vs 2015. It's like night and day. Revis in 2015 was much better so you have to count that. Decker was almost a non factor in 2016. You really gotta grasp at straws to think the 2016 team was better and attempt to pin it on Bowles like that. You have to look at the season as a whole. In no way was the 2016 team more talented. They have some promising young guys, but in reality they weren't great. How many muffs for Jalin? Lee also has a lot of work to do. Rookies and depth players are great, but they don't make up for the dropoff of Revis, Wilkerson and Fitz. Decker was a huge loss, and Fitzpatrick played like dogshit. Wilkerson was the best player on defense in 2015, now in 2016 he was hurt and barely did anything. 2015 Wilkerson, Decker, Revis were >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Peak, Lee, Edwards, Burris and Shell. It's not like those young guys became pro bowlers. But we did have Pro Bowlers become the equivalent of depth players.
I don't think Bowles should automatically be given another year just because they're rebuilding. I think Bowles should be judged based upon the way the team plays and whether he has learned and developed as a HC. For instance, for most of the last two seasons, the team showed up unprepared to play. While penalties were better, there were still lots of mental errors and sloppy play. Players weren't held accountable and benched for poor play. They weren't held accountable for skipping or being late to team meetings and practices until late in the season. Bowles game management and ability to make adjustments showed zero improvement last season. Those are the things that should determine whether he gets to keep his job after the 2017 season, not whether or not the team is undergoing a rebuild. He can have young players prepared to play. He can bench them when they don't play well. He can hold them accountable, and have a zero tolerance policy for being late for practices and meetings. If he's worth of retaining the title of HC, he should be able to improve his game management and ability to make adjustments. Easily. IMO when comparing the talent, you're looking at the players that are on the roster and their abilities, NOT how they actually play due to injury, age, poor coaching, or poor performance. Injuries are part of the game and can happen in any season. Injuries can happen as a result of the way the HC prepares, conditions and practices the players as well. They affect how players play, NOT how talented they are. How players play is different than the talent level. Just because players got older or didn't play well, doesn't mean the team was less talented. If you had said the team didn't play as well in 2016 as it had in 2015, then I would have agreed with you. The reality is that the Jets had a lot more young, faster, more talented players on the team last season than in 2016. Saying anything else is just flat out wrong.
Yes I agree obviously, that you have to judge Bowles by how HE handles the team and see if he improves. It's hard to do that on a losing, team, however. You said that players weren't held accountable? How do you know that? We saw that Bowles wasn't afraid to bench 2 of his best players for missing meetings. That is direct evidence that he is trying to hold people accountable. You can't just bench everybody for inconsistent play, and he definitely tried that by starting Geno at one point and then shutting down Fitz for Petty. I'm sorry but you are blaming Bowles for player mistakes??? Are we going to blame him for the Marshall drops next? Should he have benched Marshall? The mistake was signing Fitz. That's on Macc. Fitz was bad, no way around it. The 2 best players on D were bad that year. It's not just on Bowles, and if he could go 10-6 with a healthy version of the same basic team, I see no reason he couldn't do something like that again in 2017 or 2018. If Bowles is so horrible that the team can't win with him, then he would have never gone 10-6 in his rookie year. Also it's not true that Bowles didn't hold people accountable for missing meetings until halfway through last season. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...-wilkerson-benched-for-being-late-to-meeting/ He did bench Wilkerson (who was arguably the best player on the team that year, and did it during a critical game) in 2015 for missing that meeting, so your claim that they weren't held accountable until recently is flat out wrong. Just because the stories were not front page articles (they only are when teams lose), doesn't mean nothing happened. Most of the disciplinary actions he takes never leave the practice facility, so how can you know that he's not holding people accountable. You also say that the team was unprepared to play. How on earth do you know that is was lack of preparation? How can you tell the difference between that and simply failing to execute on the field? Did Bowles not prepare Brandon Marshall and hence cause him to drop all the important passes. Did he not motivate Wilkerson enough to heal faster? Did he not prepare Fitzpatrick's arm causing him to be super inaccurate all year? His biggest weakness thus far is halftime adjustments. The Jets were a horrible 2nd half team last year. I look for improvement on that and clock management this year. Oh stop it. You are letting your negativity speak for you. First, you said the team was better, not that it was more talented. They were not better. The day 1 starting roster is not the only thing that matters when comparing 2 teams. Sorry but that makes zero sense. If Revis plays great in 2015 and garbage in 2016, that means he's not as good any more, hence the position is not as good, hence overall the team is not as good. It's not rocket science. And no, Darren Lee didn't make up for that huge hole in the secondary and Wilkerson playing like crap. In fact, IIRC he didn't even start half the year. Younger and faster does not equate to better. It is delusional to claim that injuries do not make a team worse, or that missing / declining pro bowlers doesn't affect how good a team is. The only reason I'm arguing this is because you are using it against Bowles, as if he has control over Decker's injury or Revis' decline. Remember you made that argument, not me. I'm not trying to say Bowles doesn't affect the team, but to think 2016 team was better is flat out silly. They looked good on paper prior to going into the season, but that isn't how you judge how good a team is. You have to look at the results.
Go back and watch the Colts and Cardinals game from last season - Bowles should have been fired for just those two games.
And if not for them, certainly for the Chiefs game. How do you allow a QB to throw 6 picks and not bench him, unless you have no other QBs on the sideline? And then, to compound matters, he keeps him as his starter the next week! OMG! Add to that the points that NC made about his lack of discipline and control of the team, and his failures to manage the clock and to make half time adjustments, frankly, if he was the coach on a team like the Packers, Steelers, Pats, Broncos, he would've been fired before the end of the season. It simply underscores Woody's ineptitude that he was allowed to continue.
LMAO! You posted false and presumptive claims and they were debunked. Your BS about not holding people accountable in 2015 when Wilkerson was benched, and your BS claim that the 2016 team was better than the 2015 are the only laughable things here. You judge a team on how they look on paper, rather than how they play. You are just a whiner that constantly complains and bitches about everything, and now you have no argument other than insulting me. I was enjoying our conversation until now. I like shooting the shit with you guys, even when we don't agree, but be a fucking man instead of insulting me like a child when things don't go your way. Next time don't make false claims like that. I'm not even saying that Bowles is a good coach, just that 2 years is premature to fire somebody, especially when you inherit an undisciplined Rex Ryan team. You act like I'm singing his praises. I'm just saying you have to give him another year to try to turn it around. Your argument is absurdity of the highest degree. You don't know ANYTHING about the inner workings of the team and how their practices go with discipline and accountability. Why even make shit like that up when you don't know what you're talking about? I'm not even a Bowles supporter. I just don't like when teams cycle through HCs and GMs every 2-3 years. It's not a good formula for continuity and long term success. Plenty of coaches out there take a few years to find their stride.
If this isn't false or made up, then surely you have an example of somebody being late or missing a team meeting and not being punished early in the year? If I'm wrong here I'll gladly eat crow and admit I was wrong, but I posted the article that clearly showed that Wilkerson was benched in 2015. Bowles did not have a better team the 2nd year, that's flat out ridiculous, but I'm not going to bother going back and forth on this anymore. I don't know what I did to make you so upset, but it's not even worth continuing, when all you have is insults and denial. I hate Todd Bowles, I've spoken out against him and criticized his decision making many many times. But you have to give him another year to improve and get rid of that clown Richardson. We'll see if the Jets are serious about discipline as soon as they (hopefully) trade him.
