Victor Hobson had 5 good years here. Forgot about him. Stephen Hill Geno Smith Jace Amaro Devin Smith Absolute trash heap of talent so far.
Hackenberg Year 2 at Training Camp will tell us a lot. You guys made good points. I think he should AND WILL continue to sit. In fact, if Petty got hurt, then Fitz got hurt, I would bring in someone from the street to start over Hackenberg. Give him the time to learn and get his mechanics right. He has all the tools. Just needs to get that right.
None of us know for certain, but at least 2-3 other teams supposedly were very high on Hackenberg as well, including both the Texans and the Pats. Mac didn't want to take a risk of losing him. How stupid would he have been and looked if he thought Hack could be our QB of the future, but because he needed to work on his fundamentals, Mac decided to roll the dice and hope that Hack was still there in the 3rd only to see the Texans, Pats or another team take him?
The Jets need another Veteran (like Romo -- love it & hate it at the same time) for 1 year. They need to build the offensive line immediately. Hackenberg became a deer in the headlights at Penn State with his patch work offensive line. Coincidentally the Jets are now operating with a patchwork offensive line. It will be counterproductive to put him out there next year EVEN WITH newly acquired OL talent because the OL will need at least 1 year to mesh and get rhythm. I would be comfortable putting our franchise QB behind a solid OL no sooner than 2018.
So Hackenberg is a franchise QB? Snap your fingers, just like that. All we've got to do is get a little OL talent let them play for a year and 2018 bam there we are. All set for the next 15 years. Thrilled to hear the good news let's let everybody know.
I understand what you're saying, but imo that's basically wasting a season to say you're not going to play our young QBs because you're afraid they might get hurt. I disagree that it takes that long for an OL to mesh, or at least it shouldn't. At any rate, I want no part of effing Tony Romo. The Jets would have to pay him a ton of money, and if he can't stay healthy behind Dallas' OL, he sure isn't going to stay healthy here, so the Jets would be playing Petty or Hack anyway and your reasoning is a fail.
Perhaps this is geeking out too much but Sunday I was watching the ESPN pregame show and they had Trent Dilfer on talking about Carson Wentz. He said that he has big concerns about Wentz because when he is inaccurate, he misses high. Missing high means more interceptions and is a bad sign for a QB's future. He said the biggest reason Wentz misses high is because when he brings the ball back his elbow is above the football. That causes the ball to sail high when he releases it. Notice the picture below: (its creepy btw, just google Wentz and there are so many photos of his elbow above the ball like this) Dilfer went on to say that there are QBs like this in the league that keep their elbow above like that and they all struggle with turnovers. He mentioned some names, can't remember them all but they all sucked ass. and he said how all the good QBs don't do that - Brady, Rodgers, and he mentioned Dak Prescott as someone who doesnt do it and that's why he liked him coming in.... So it got me thinking, what about our young QBs? and low and behold Hackenberg is a big time high elbow guy (again - so many pictures out there of Hackenberg like that, its creepy) FWIW, Petty appears to NOT be a high elbow guy. Encouraging. Here's Dak Prescott btw
Superb stuff bringing the mechanics/kinesiology into this. I would offer that the arm angle will dictate the speed of release and ultimate follow thru. note how the torso of wentz is perpendicular to the ground, like prescott and hack. Thats good. It will compensate for the high elbow to a degree. We do not want a lean back type of look like petty has - especially on throws less than 30 yards. That will also create the floating pass. I do think petty is fine and has to play to give us the ultimate answer.
I'm not sure this is much of an indicator Also, the pictures showing the differences between quarterbacks are pretty clearly just taken at different points during their throwing motion.
your pictures are not at the point Dilfer was talking about. Your hackenberg one is right at the release point and your Rodgers & Prescott one is before they even wind up. You might as well show them standing on the sideline. He was talking about at the back end of their wind up. I thought my pictures were close to capturing that
you mention their torso. I have always noticed how much Fitzpatrick has to lean back and twist forward, more than any QB i've seen. Its almost like he has to use everything in him to make a throw. I think the best mechanics I've seen out of a Jets QB in my life was Pennington
That was my point in choosing the picture of Hack that I did. I thought the pictures you posted of Petty and Dak are both significantly later in the throwing motion than the ones of Hack and Wentz so I posted examples showing that you can freeze frame at any point you want to tell the story you want. I don't understand what you mean by my pictures of Rodgers and Dak being "before they even wind up". They seem to show that both QBs bring the ball below their elbow after separating their hands, which is exactly what Dilfer described to be a bad quality. We can agree to disagree, but this one trait doesn't seem like an indicator to me. Hackenberg's problems are with his lower half and not driving his front shoulder/torso through his target on short throws, not with his release.
I guess I didn't make it clear. You mention Hackenberg's problems are "not with his release" that is my point. Its when they bring the ball back like the photo you have of Brees which I would say is a good representation of the poor form Dilfer was talking about, not when their shoulder has made the turn to release it and certainly not when the ball is still at their side like your rodgers and prescott pics. idk maybe its easier to capture on video, maybe Dilfer is full of shit. Idk. I'm just saying there are many photos of Hackenberg doing what Dilfer described as bad. take it for what its worth.
No fail. You made a ton of assumptions. Injury was 1 criteria I had in mind, but not the most pivotal. Confidence is the most critical asset a solid offensive line can give to a QB -- especially a young QB. Confidence or lack thereof has defined franchise and bust QBs alike. You can define "confidence", pertaining to the football field, in a multitude of ways; all of those definitions would apply to any QB the Jets will field in the future.
What assumptions did I make? Injury may not have been the most pivotal criteria in your mind, but it should be, and it is in mine and a number of other posters here. Tony Romo would have zero chance of staying healthy behind this OL. Even if the Jets were able to fix the OL before next season, I doubt he'd stay healthy. Even if he could, he shouldn't be here. Unless Petty or Hack are busts or decade-long projects, one of them should be our next starter imo. This team needs to be torn down and rebuilt, and they need to go with a youth movement. No more old, over-the-hill vets. I'd rather go 0-16 with Petty and/or Hack and have some hope for the future or learn that we need to totally start over at the QB position, than win 5-6 games with Romo next season, and have no clue who our starting QB should be in 2018.
Injury is your foremost concern but you would put Petty or Hackenberg behind this terrible offensive line? I don't see anything consistent here. My opinion is the Jets need an OL before they can worry about a franchise QB. Another journeyman is fine with me for 2017 if it means the Jets will be in a position to draft high and take OL. I am holding out hope Hackenberg will become a franchise QB but I don't want to see him taking 90% of the snaps in 2017. It will ruin him. That said, I think it would be valuable to get Hackenberg live reps this season in the last game or two.
