Week 1 | Game Observations

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by DaBallhawk, Sep 13, 2015.

  1. Jets81

    Jets81 Well-Known Member

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    21 points of turnovers. THE difference.
     
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  2. Jetsruby

    Jetsruby Well-Known Member

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    That's absolutely a good point that I forgot about. This D line should be able to produce better against other lines.
     
  3. edray10

    edray10 Well-Known Member

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    On the lack of pass rush it's important to remember that (i) the Browns have one of the best OL's in the game and (ii) when you have a running QB its very important for the pass rushers to stay in their lanes and try to crush the pocket to keep containment. Staying in their lanes will limit your passrushers because they can't try to go around the Olinemen they have to bull rush them back. Really good Olinemen, like cleveland has, will know how to handle a bull rush.

    I expect the pass rush against Indy next week to be much better.
     
  4. DaBallhawk

    DaBallhawk Well-Known Member

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    It doesn't matter who we play, we don't have an edge rusher. That's the issue. We have plenty of good inside guys who can collapse the pocket, but we need somebody to be able to beat tackles off the edge. We don't have that. At least not until Mauldin is back. Babin is an option but a poor one.
     
  5. edray10

    edray10 Well-Known Member

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    Bowles system and Rex's are different in one key way. Rex runs a 2 gap system and Bowles runs a 1 gap system. What that means is that in Rex's system dlinemen have responsibility for stopping runs in two gaps, so the NT generally lines up directly facing the center (this is called a 0 technique) so the NT can cover the gaps on both sides of the center and the ends line up directly facing the tackles (called a 4 technique) so they can cover the gaps between the guards and tackles and the ones on the outside of the tackles. Most 3-4s work this way and in these types of 3-4s the key guys are the linebackers because the Dlinemen are supposed to keep the blockers occupied. This is a very good system if you have so-so dlinemen and really good LBs (like the 1980s giants). Because Dlinemen have to play run first and make sure they have coverage over both gaps they are reponsible for first this results in less pass rush, especially on earlier downs. This alignment is generally better against the run and weaker against the pass.

    In contrast, Bowles generally runs a 1 gap system so that the NT lines up on one side of the center (called a 1 technique), with one of the ILB's responsible for the gap on the other side of the center. Then the 2 DEs generally line up either between the tackles and guards (called a 3 technique) or between the tackle and TE (called a 5 technique) on the strong side with the LBs covering the remaining gaps. This type of alignment generally results in more penetration by the dlinemen and makes edge rushers less important. With our dlinemen this will genete a lot of penetration and pass rush. This is an unusual set up for a 3-4 alignment and is commonly used in 4-3 defensive alignments (with smaller, quicker Dlinemen). This alignment means that the Dlinemens' jobs is always just to penetrate their gap regardless of run or pass and will generally generate a lot more pressure in situations where its not clear that something will be a pass play. It will also generate more tackles for a loss. With the strength of the Jets Dlinemen this should be a much better match for the personnel they have. This approach is generally viewed as being stronger against the pass and weaker against the run and will generate pass rush directly up the middle which is very difficult for a QB to handle.

    Now, I said Bowles generally runs a 1 gap system, but in this game it was more like a 2 gap system because they had to prevent the Oline from opening holes for the QB to run through when scrambling. When they go back to their pure 1 gap system against non-running QBs they will generate a lot of pass rush.
     
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  6. DaBallhawk

    DaBallhawk Well-Known Member

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    Rex Ryan does not run a 2 gap system. He never has, not with us, the Ravens, nor does he do it with the Bills currently. It's one gap. His defense is virtually identical to Bowles' defense, the defense Jim Schwartz ran last year with the Bills, it's a 1 gap system where the DE's are asked to penetrate and create havoc. Bowles did the same in Arizona, he's doing the same here. What both guys are lacking is an egde rusher. We haven't had that under Ryan, under Mangini, not even under Herm ever since John Abraham left. That's the one thing we're missing that is keeping us back, keeping us from truly being elite.
     
  7. NotSatoshiNakamoto

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    I'm really excited about our offensive line. I'm going to try and find time this week to re-watch focusing on them but causally watching yesterday they seemed dominant at times.

    Marshal was also extremely impressive ... what a player, and I hate the guy.
     
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  8. BroadwayAaron

    BroadwayAaron Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure it was mentioned somewhere in this thread and I just missed it, but I thought Calvin Pryor had a hell of a game. He obviously still has some work to do in coverage, and I don't know that he'll ever really be a cover safety but he doesn't really have to be. He looked extremely comfortable in his new role.
     
  9. edray10

    edray10 Well-Known Member

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    Rex Ryan runs a hybrid system, but its generally a 2 gap system except that he seems to prefer to have his DEs play a 5 technique rather than a 4 technique. The NT in Rex's system absolutely has 2 gap responsibility for the gaps on both sides of the center. Damon Harrison has said in numerous interviews how much he looks forward to playing in Bowles system because it is a 1 gap system and he was coming from Rex's 2 gap system.

    Here's an article with a good description of the different DL schemes (including a discussion of Rex's system) - http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...s-the-basics-of-the-4-3-3-4-and-ryan-defenses

    Rob Ryan also runs pretty much the same system as Rex and here's a good description with charts showing gap responsibilities - http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2011...efense-under-rob-ryan-linemen-gap-assignments
     
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  10. HackettSuxTNG

    HackettSuxTNG Well-Known Member

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    Chris Ivory showed that if he is healthy, he is a more than capable first-choice running back.
     
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  11. Don

    Don 2008 TGG Rich Kotite "Least Knowledgeable" Award W

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    Makes a difference when he isn't forced to play out of position.
     
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  12. DaBallhawk

    DaBallhawk Well-Known Member

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    Again, Rex does not run a 2 gap system, his defense is virtually identical to Bowles' scheme. Nobody in this day and age runs that old school 3-4 defense from the 90s, the type the Steelers ran back in the day. You don't get 10-15 sacks out of your 3-4 DE's if you're running a typical 2 gap scheme where guys are asked to tie up blockers. They are identical. He's looking for his DE's to collapse the pocket, he's moving his DE's over to the inside on passing downs to collapse the pocket. It's no different to what Jim Schwartz did with the Bills (Mario Williams & Dareus), it's no different than what Rex did here last year with Sheldon and Mo, it's no different than what he did with the Ravens (Pryce & Ngata), no different than what Bowles did last year in Arizona (Calais Campbell & Dockett). Those aren't 2 gap players, they're all asked to rush the passer and create havoc, shoot the gaps, attack. Not sit back and take on blockers.
     
  13. edray10

    edray10 Well-Known Member

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    I guess Damon Harrison must have been confused as to what he was playing - http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2015/07/jets_damon_harrison_says_todd_bowles_will_let_him.html

    I'm not saying that every play Rex was playing a 2 gap system, just that generally he was. That alignment often changed on 3rd and long where they figured the other team wouldn't run (and Harrison ws normally on the bench). Also, when you blitz a lot like Rex does anybody can get the sacks, including 3-4 Dlinemen.
     
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  14. jcass10

    jcass10 Well-Known Member

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    I didnt think the pass rush was terrible, especially considering the OL they were playing. They were also missing Richardson. I also thought Manziel got out of a lot of should be sacks. It wasnt great by any stretch, but not the dumpster fire the game thread would have you believe. Could still use an edge rusher, though.

    I think the Cromartie injury could be a blessing in disguise. I dont think Cromartie is a number 2 CB anymore. Being a number 2 CB across from Revis is a real challenge, because they get attacked early and often. At this point in his career, I dont think Cromartie is an every down player. Plus I'm a huge Marcus Williams fan, I'm expecting an average game from him next week since we're playing Luck.

    Mauldin.. Hope he's ok. Seems like its just a concussion, but that was terrifying. Bigger than football.

    OLine played damn well I thought, will definitely be a strength this year.

    Fitz had the kind of game that we need our QB's to have. 60% with limited TO's. The INT was ugly, hopefully he doesnt throw one a game lol.

    Wide receivers are damn good. Marshall is awesome. Decker is really good. Owusu is a playmaker. I dont see the point of Kerley on this team. I didnt see how often he was in the game, but if he isnt going to play on offense, he shouldnt be on the team. Powell is a better returner. I imagine he's tough to move, as his trade value must be super low at this point.

    Ivory is Ivory. Has the ability to be one of the better RB's in the NFL. I have no problem with him splitting carries with Powell, though. Powell is a Jet through and through.

    I have to say, I dont know if anything satisfied me more than seeing Pryor having a fantastic game. 10 tackles and a FF. First rounder busts hurt big time.

    Overall, I was very happy with this game. My fingers are hurting so I'll add anything extra later.
     
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  15. BroadwayAaron

    BroadwayAaron Well-Known Member

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    Yea, I guess I should have said he looks comfortable in the role he should have been playing for a year already.
     
  16. DaBallhawk

    DaBallhawk Well-Known Member

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    Damon wasn't confused, it's just that you didn't understand what he actually said.

    Mo and Sheldon are not two gappers. They never were here under Rex, and Rex doesn't run a 2 gap scheme in Buffalo either with Mario Williams & Dareus or Kyle Williams. Let's just move on from this already.
     
  17. edray10

    edray10 Well-Known Member

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    Here's a really good article on Rex's defensive fronts - http://billsmafia.com/2015/08/03/breaking-down-buffalo-bills-hc-rex-ryans-defensive-fronts/.

    As you go through the article you'll see that he's truly running a hybrid system and that gap responsibilities shift based on the front being used, that being said the NT seems to generally have 2 gap responsibility and if they weren't bringing in a 4th DL (or shifting an LB to a 4th dlineman) then the ends had 2 gap responsibility. If they brought in a 4th Dlinemen (and switched to a 4-3) then the gap assignments would change depending on the alignment, but the NT generally had 2 gap responsibilities and the DE on the side without the additional DT still had 2 gap responsibilities. The extra dlineman brought in and the DE on the side with the additional DT each had 1 gap responsibility.

    Bowles also mixes it up. Yesterday Harrison was often playing 0 technique with 2 gap responsibility (which I think happened because of the running QBs and the expectation that the Browns would try to do a lot of running).
     
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  18. Cman68

    Cman68 The Dark Admin, 2018 BEST Darksider Poster

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    Here's where Capt. Obvious makes his weekly appearance...

    Jeremy Kerley should not field Punts. He really reminds me a lot of Dedric Ward back there. I don't know who else on the team we could use for that job, but the CS really needs to find another body to do PR's.
     
  19. HackettSuxTNG

    HackettSuxTNG Well-Known Member

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    You would prefer WALTER POWELL!?!?!?
     
  20. DaBallhawk

    DaBallhawk Well-Known Member

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    What I like about Kerley is that he's not somebody who'll cough up the ball but that's about it. Other than that he's useless as a returner. I want to see Walt Powell back there. If we're not going to use Kerley as a receiver just move on from him already. Hell, Walt might actually contribute more as a receiver here than Kerley does currently. At least he can stretch the field, run reverses, stuff like that, return kicks and punts. Kerley doesn't do any of that and he makes like 5 times his salary.
     

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