**PLEASE NOTE - If you are not prepared to discuss this topic in a respectful way, then please ignore this thread. I would like to discuss religion with believers and non-believers, but please let's do so in a way that is respectful of opinions and viewpoints that are different from our own. Thanks in advance! I will start by pasting some comments I made elsewhere where a discussion on religion began. Feel free to reply on these points, or start your own discussion on something else. First, to any atheists out there --- Science can only study the physical universe. Atheists believe the physical universe is all there is. One of the primary, fundamental laws of science is that nothing comes from nothing. Space is an empty vacuum, except for the elements that appear in it (matter, energy, dark matter, etc). But where did these elements/entities come from? The default state of the universe is an empty void/nothingness. So why is there something rather than nothing? Science teaches that the Big Bang started it all, and this seems to be the case; in fact, the Catholic Church now recognizes the Big Bang theory. But what caused the Big Bang? The Big Bang theory holds that both time and space began at a tiny, dense point - a single point - called the singularity. Apart from this infinitely dense singularity, nothing existed, not even time or space. In other words, not only was there no universe, but there was no space at all for a universe to exist in, and there was no time. So where did this singularity come from? What caused it? This extremely dense singularity contained all of the energy of what would become the universe, and we now know that matter and energy are interchangeable, that is, energy can give rise to matter, and vice versa. So this singularity gave rise to all of the space, matter, energy, and even time that would constitute the universe. And nothing, literally nothing, existed before it, at least in a physical, natural sense. But what about the supernatural? Science, of course, can only study the physical, natural universe. Remember, nothing comes from nothing, so if there was nothing outside of that original singularity, how could it have come about? Did it just "magically" appear out of nothing? Or did something outside of the natural, the supernatural, give rise to the singularity and the Big Bang? Only the latter, of course, makes any sense. I have studied this extensively, and in-depth, and none of the atheistic explanations make any sense in light of what I have just outlined. A discussion on the Catholic Church also took place. I will continue that discussion with those involved here too, if they are interested.
The bible: a book made up of carefully edited and painstakingly selected texts used to control large portions of the population.
My argument against the argument you just made is actually very simple. You cannot just attribute things that we are yet to understand to God. Even if you could, where did God come from? You can't just say, "well, he's supernatural, so that doesn't apply to him". The second you do that, you lose all credibility. I believe in tangible things, things I can touch, see, smell, taste, etc. Without evidence, and no, 2,000 year old accounts do not classify as evidence in 2015, how can we know whether anything exists or not? For example, if I came into work tomorrow and said, "Hey guys, I believe that there's oil at (insert place here), but I don't have any evidence to support this theory, I just believe it's there" What do you think the reaction would be? I would most likely get laughed out of the building and that's putting it mildly.
Jesus never broke the law, especially the sabbath. Just because he healed a man, that was not breaking the law, Jesus clearly had the correct interpretation of the law where as the Jewish leaders had the incorrect interpretation, because they added on to the law. The sabbath was established so they could have spiritual refreshment, the Jewish leaders took it to another level. The kind of work prohibited was secular work, not pouring yourself a cup of water, or turning on a candle. Or saving a sheep or cattle from catastrophe. Jesus never instituted Peter as the priest, he said to them they have on father and one teacher, everyone else were to be considered brothers.
Charlie, if you were to receive a book that was written over a span of 2000 years and was made up of 66 different books, and 40 different writers and it was harmonious from beginning to end, you wouldn't think that it merited an objective investigation? Just for your info, years ago I was a skeptic, but what made me look at it even though I was still wary, was the prophecy in the book of Daniel, no one can refute the timeline of the dominant world powers the book prophecied would come to be, including the U.S. and Britain. I respect your right to choose not to look at it, but if you ever choose to. Look at the those prophecies and the symbolic creatures used to explain the governments that would come to be, it's jaw dropping how accurate they are. And no scholar in the world can or will dispute the time the book of Daniel was written because history shows it was written centuries before the prophecies came true. See you in the draft forum
Eat a bag of shit, cuntface. I joke. The problem with this analysis is that you are using science to establish the basis for your faith. Faith is belief in the express absence of proof. Its why it is such a powerful phenomenon. You will never convince a skeptic that God (conveniently, this is usually the God of the particular religion you subscribe to) is the best explanation for anything that science currently has no good answer for. Basically, what KY said.
I am a Roman Catholic. I believe in Jesus. I am God fearing. I believe we all have souls and they go somewhere in the afterlife. To not believe that is too sorrowful to contemplate. Hell if you are evil, heaven if you are good. Been to the Vatican many times, St. Peter's Basilica is my second favotite church in the world after Sacre Coeur. Pieta is my favorite statue in the world. I am not non-religious. I am far from an atheist. Hell, U2 is my favorite band. But I am also very educated and I have been taught to think for myself. I also lost my naïveté, my innocence, my gullibility when I was a teenager. As a reasonable, logical, educated adult, I cannot without question accept verbatim everything the Catholic Church feeds me. Those that want to believe and accept what the Church preaches as "gospel" is fine for them. Don't try to convince me that I need to accept it, or that you are right because you blindly believe, or that I am wrong for questioning that which I find illogical, uninformed, unreasonable or just plain delusional. And stop feeling the compulsive obsession to wear that pious sanctimony out on your sleeve and shove it down my skeptical throat at every turn. _
One difference. I am Muslim. I believe in Prophet Mohammed. I am God fearing too. I don't pray 5 times a day. I didn't go to Mecca. But I believe in God.
I am hurt. Hahaha. Not really. Go ahead and discuss with Truth guy. I will read it with great pleasure.
All I need is a challenge... http://www.metacafe.com/watch/an-yLHOn7u7ht7Y/the_blues_brothers_1980_mother_superior_part_2/ How can I ever redeem myself?
Slide on down to the triple rock and catch the Reverend Cleophus. You boys listen to what he has to say.
When I was a kid on a field trip, we played this game where about 20 of us sat down in a large circle. The leader had a specific phrase that was whispered to the 1st kid. That kid then had to whisper it to the next person. We went all the way around the room, and by the time it was over, that phrase was completely different. Not a single word was the same. What did I take from all of this? A story that was probably made up, or at least largely exaggerated in the 1st place, changed in language, and in text over the coarse of 2,000 years in all probability is just as truthful as a children's bed time story. I'm not trying to trash on religion, but I don't think anybody on this planet should be so 100% certain about religion. Think about it.. there are THOUSANDS of religious views, different types, different gods, different theories. Who are you to say that your religion is right over another person's? Everybody is entitled to their own opinion, and that's fine, but I don't see the point in trying to find the needle in the haystack. The truth is that nobody knows where we came from. Nobody knows anything with certainty, and no amount of research, or church attending will change that. The only definitive way of knowing, is if/when you're in the after life. It is with all that said, why I don't follow any religion. Obviously there is some correct theory, but I won't pretend to know what it is. I am shameless to say that I am Agnostic.
