the Chiefs were a playoff team though, right? Miami was not and we lost 45-3 w/ Ken, Pitt was not and we lost 45-24 w/ Ken(Ken led O to 17), Cincy was not and we lost 52-21(Ken led O to 14 pts). Pat stepped up and led us to a win and had he not gotten hurt at Cle we probably win the next week too. I don't claim Pat was better, I claim Pat led us to our lone PO win of the O'Brien era which isn't really a claim it's a fact. the D and O blew that 10 pt lead. Maybe if in 5 qtrs. Ken could lead an O to more than 13 pts(w/ the lone TD coming on long run by Freeman after D got TO) then we win the game.
so what you are saying is that ken obrien is 2nd ranked but top 5 best qbs in jets history? i think i can agree with that. not a great all time but an all time great jet? well thats subjective and not even really worth arguing about like everyone has been doing for 36 pages. freeman mcneil was a great jet, victor green was my favorite jet of all time and i think he was a great jet. why? because i enjoyed the way he played the game and although he didnt lead us to any superbowl victories i realize that he is one of 53 and no one man can do it by himself on any game day. i dont necessarily disagree with your assessment, however i do disagree with you feeling the need to shit on the guy simply because other posters like him. i am the same way with wayne chrebet, but i say my piece and move on and let them read it and react and they can move on. i dont need to get into a 36 page debate with them about how stupid they are because my opinion differs from theirs.
one of best QBs in Jets history? sure, all time great Jet? No. not shitting on him at all, just speaking realistically. decent QB but let's not overrate him b/c time has made most of us forget what he actually did. if I just said "I disagree" and move on what fun is that? what I love about the board are the passionate debates, we may be right or wrong but it's fun.
we don't have a great QB history and I'd rank Ken at best #5 all time for us and it's hard for me to call someone an all time great Jet that had one good season for us and never helped us win a playoff game.
i dont think its a matter of just saying i disagree, i think people enjoy differing opinions. but to feel it necessary to take it to the level that you do is probably where we differ. im more of a state my opinion and move on with stuff like this because it is a matter of opinion. you enjoy the debate. which is cool, and i need to do a better job of not getting involved in it. but it does spur conversation. that much i will agree with.
I go w/ the flow, if people want to take it off course I will go along w/ it. if it gets nasty so be it(my advice is never take anything personal, no one gets insulted more on this site than myself so when I give it back those folks should be able to take it), if you don't want to discuss or want to ignore me go ahead too. I don't think any quality posters have ever put me on ignore but maybe some day.
It's like a toilet that won't flush. According to some, it's what we (as Jet fans) deserve. It just don't seem fair.
according to me and it is what we as a fanbase deserves. Not what I deserve, I deserve SBs but I am surrounded by awful human beings that deserve the worst.
Yes, against a very bad QB team where the defense held the chiefs running game in check and that was the end of the Chiefs. You crack me up in your arguments to move O'Brien down. You go all over the field, playoff games matter, then it's a single regular season game, then it's O'Briends fault that he led the team to a lead and the defense collapsed. But I'll remind you that there's only one play off game that matters, the Super Bowl. I don't care how many playoff wins a QB does or doesn't have, if they never got past the Conference championship it doesn't mean dick. Why? Because noone but die hard fans remember that a team almost got in to the Superbowl. A QB is their whole body of work. Wins and losses are a team stat.
bad team that was a PLAYOFF team unlike the teams Ken lost to late in the year, right? held the Chiefs run game in check? KC only ran it 14 times w/ their RBs. I don't move anything, I have always been consistent. he had one good year for us and never helped us win a single playoff game w/ some of the most talented teams in NYJ history against a weak AFC field. You cannot get to a SB w/o getting to a div rd and conf title game in modern football. KC had won their last 3 including crushing eventual AFC Champ Denver. were they a great team? Nope but they were a playoff team and better than some of the teams Ken was awful against late in the year. keep that excuse train rolling.
LOL, again you're running back and forth. Yes the Chiefs crushed Denver in the regular season, at home, and again it was the Jets DEFENSE that won the game for the Jets in the playoffs the completely stifled the Chiefs offense. Ryan, you're supposed savior couldn't get anything going in the next game, O'Brien came in, got the lead and the defense blew it. Yes you could argue that the Jets should have scored in the overtime to win. Then again the Browns allowed the 11th fewest points in the NFL. The Cleveland team was a vastly superior team to the Chiefs both offensively and defensively. And yet against one of the best defenses in the NFL that season O'Brien had the team poised to win where as Ryan had stumbled. Jets defense do their job in that last 4 minutes and the Jets pull off an upset.
the only LOL here is you trying to debate me. I have torn apart your weak arguments and every new excuse is torn apart as well. deflecting by saying "Ryan, you're supposed savior" doesn't help. Ryan was a good backup, he was not a good long term starter and should not have been starting over Ken BUT he won the only playoff game in the Ken era. Cleveland was definitely better than KC, where did I say otherwise? I was discussing how awful Ken was the last few reg season games against non playoff teams vs. Pat against a playoff team. now the excuse is Cle allowed the 11th fewest pts in the league? so that excuses Ken for basically leading O to 6 pts in 5 qtrs.? did you know KC allowed just 16 more points than Cleveland? they allowed one more PPG(I don't actual points allowed by defenses in 1986: Cleveland: 296 pts, 18.5 PPG Kansas City: 296 pts, 18.5 PPG I think this is exactly the same. vs. KC our O scores 28 pts led by Ryan at Cle our O scored 13 pts in last 5 qtrs. led by Ken(and the lone TD was after a TO and Freeman scored on long TD run on 1st play). NEXT excuse
